Hi Sarah, I do believe you got this psychotic cat down with that picture, but I can't really describe what seeing her head poking up behind something to get my attention is like, and when she sees me seeing her, she takes off at a million miles a minute. She reminds me of the little mouse that is poking around somewhere in all of Gary Patterson's "Cats" pictures.

Dear Kikimart and Muse, the reason I tap her with the ruler or flyswatter is basically the same as the idea of using a spray of water, which I did too, and then had to clean it off the fishtank as it streaked down. I don't use my hand except that one time, but it's true that I haven't had a kitten like this; not quite climbing the curtains, but I will need some new furnishings closer to the floor.

You know I do exaggerate, but she looks just like the photos of kittens you guys post doing the baddest things. I feel sorry for her and afraid sometimes that she'll electrocute herself, strangle or something, since she can jump higher and with longer strides than a big ugly grasshopper.

Have you ever seen a kitten brand new to you sucking on your earlobe? I guess it was like a nippy somehow, but she would demand to "feed" on either earlobe in the a.m. and p.m. and that was cute at first, but her favorite position was lying across my chest sucking on my left earlobe. COME ON GUYS! This is a very strange little animal. We're doing alright, please worry more about me than her. If I don't keep a firm and consistent set of limits with her, I will be taken for a long rest in a psych ward. BECAUSE OF A KITTEN!

Funkybreakz it is so heartfelt the way you talk about your pooch, and how you took such good care of him. I know there's a spot in our hearts that we feel when we know it's time to bring another friend home, but I think it's OK to wait if possible because only two of my cats (always adults, adopted from shelters) became my soulmates, if that can happen.

This time I tried another adult, I was so sorry that she had just had a big-time csection to deliver 7 kittens and all were adopted out. She was dropped off at the vet for surgery and to sit in a cage waiting for someone to adopt her. She got a very raw deal in every way. Then, I was in such despair I had to replace Mia somehow, so got a kitten to help with my depression which she has, big time, but the expections I have are too great for this little critter. I'm keeping her but she really is a hellcat and can keep going hour after hour, tearing things up. I just want my Mia or a clone of her, but doing the best we can to adjust.

I'm glad you keep in touch here. My heart goes out to you. Soho

Hey Rina, I love you too but it took awhile to get the picture and signature lined up. A little out of date, but can be changed. Guess I needed something WAY different. You know how weird stuff sometimes cracks us hippie types up.

Soho, she is sucking your earlobe because she was weaned and taken away from her mother too soon. That is what happens. They seek comfort by replacing the closeness they felt while nursing with something that feels similar to them. If it bothers you, gently distract her by petting her, giving her a kiss and telling her you love her. It should resolve itself as she gets older.

Try to keep in mind that you were used to an adult cat. A kitten is almost like a totally different creature. Like I said, it's a fleeting moment in time so go with the flow and enjoy her.

I bet you a dollar in one year (yup it could be that long ) that she really quiets down. My last kitten (never had a litter) had the crazies not all the time but certain hours than just tried to kill me on the stairs daily. He is now calmer (I miss the crazies now) but is still trying to kill me on the stairs. I think a lot of kittens are nuts and that's half the fun if your furniture and fish tank can take it a little longer. I have always found around 6 or 7 months they start to behave the way they will behave for life. If they are still loving and friendly than they always will be. Some start to shy away and just turn into a boring cat. I do not see a boring cat in your future but a fun, carefree, noncrazy, loving cat.
Good luck with your little friend and to be honest I've whacked my cat once or twice. I have 9 and if one is about to lick my dinner while I turned my back than guess what's about to happen? Like you I'm not an abuser, I just need to get their attention RIGHT NOW. A swat gets their attention or the quick yell as I'm about to swat. Not one of my 9 strays shy away from us for doing this when they were younger. They are happy, well adjusted (okay one is trying to kill off the other ones) adult cats now.
One toy I found my kitten loves is a ball chaser with some cat nip added http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3479078&ab=sw2a
K

Tango and Soho

I know this will anger you both but I have 17 cats and I would never whack any of them. A loud "No" always suffices. I could not hit a cat ever and we are talking about a baby kitten

I thought this was going to be a thread about loving and losing our beloved pets.

Cats should never be hit. Just as I don't believe in hitting children.

But you know this is my opinion. I love kittens so much and their antics always make me laugh and I only wish I had one right now. I am dealing with a house full of geriatric cats.

Tommy will start a fight and I say " No" and he slinks away immediately. Kittens will do what they do. After all they are babies.

Now you know why my kitten carries an assault rifle! Hitting kittens is not the way to train them! It isn't that she doesn't want you. You really don't want her and she knows it. If you are expecting instant love, forget it and the flyswatter ought to really endear you to her.

Of all people, you being in psychology and so forth, should realize that just b/c Mia dies another animal cannot take its place and certainly not within such a short amount of time. Your grieving seems a bit overmuch and I'm sure the kitten senses it. Your feelings are focused on the past, not the present and the kitten is very aware that you don't love her.

If your husband died would you run out and look for another one within a week? Of course not.

I love animals very much, but I'm sorry to say that if people took as much time and spent as much money on the downtrodden in our society, we might be able to solve a lot of human problems and get to really know our fellow man.

God gave us dominion over the animals--it is out judgment over them. They are animals, not human babies (many who need much love a lot more than cats), and can get along with or with out us. Dwelling on grief only causes a person to feel more depressed than they all ready are. So many of these threads are so full of sadness--how can anyone heal in this kind of atmosphere?

Life and death are realities.Why we have learned to dread death when it is inevitable I don't know. Superstition, I believe. It's God's plan--not to make us miserable when someone dies, but to make the most of life while they are alive. Say goodbye with lovingness, give yourself a little time to heal but remember that the sun will rise tomorrow and life will go on. This was God's plan, not ours.

We can either wrestle with God or rest in him. The choice is ours.

Tango, I was laughing my head off (sorry) that your cat still tries to kill you on the stairs. My cat is about 5 months old now, and I did see innocence in her misbehaviors for awhile, then realized she was becoming aware of 'no cat zones', there aren't many. But there's no mistaking the look in the eyes of an animal who is testing for domination in the household.

I was the one who always said you can't teach a child anything from hitting except to hit and that's true. We have words, time out, reward systems to change defiant behavior.

Muse, I respect your opinion, you have 17 cats (how many are indoors 24/7?) This isn't a baby kitten anymore. I want limits and an animal to submit to reasonable limits that I set; I don't believe in yelling, have tried the loud NO, and she's back immediately with the same unwanted behavior. Love isn't handing your home to a new animal, yes, there should be time to learn each other.

She's at a critical time now, being trained to behave with respect for the things that I respect, like my fish, my computer which she loves pulling out the cords to the mainframe. At times she can soothe herself, she's getting better at seeking me out for approval and closeness (in other words recognizing my dominance in the home and her need for me to care for her).

In return for good behaviors she gets love, interaction, praise, all the goodies. She is learning to distinguish between my anger, what she is doing to be punished, and that it feels better to behave and get good stuff from her mommy. If I really thought this couldn't be salvaged I would release her to find a family who had less structure.

I know your concerned that punishment or extinguishing unwanted behaviors could go too far, and I'm aware of that too. But, like I said, if she wasn't trainable (OMG, a developmentally disabled cat - call SSI) I wouldn't try to work with her anymore.

Musician, if someone is angered because you spoke out against animal abuse (cause that's what inflicting pain is),that's their problem and theirs alone. It should never happen. Period. But it does, to animals and kids. I've been the victim of one, and I've picked up the pieces of the other.

Frankly I can't imagine hitting a kitten with a ruler. I can't think of anything that would justify doing something stupid like that. To a little kitten? Good grief.

I've seen the results of whacking cats especially when it goes too far. Alot of them live with me because they weren't able to be adopted out from our shelter. I've spent years trying to make up for what they suffered thru and it's never enough. But they are so thankful to finally be loved. We make Rules but forget that they don't know how to read our book.

Kserah, well said. I lost my beloved Molly a week ago after 10 wonderful years with her. It boggles my mind when people say, oh but you have a shelter full....blah blah, why are you crying over one? I wonder how they can possibly say something like that with a brain in their head.

Hi Muse, it is for loving and losing our pets, but folks are going to replace those pets too and deal with all sorts of new obstacles. I hope we try to remember there's more than one way to peel an apple, so others will have a comfort zone to discuss how they deal with a completely new member of the family.

It's funny how people deal with their animals, I don't mean ha ha funny, but strange sometimes. Some will open the door and let the animal do their business in the yard, (guess they're not gardeners), while others will walk the animal to a more secluded spot and carry a pooper scooper. But, it's their yard either way. Some have many many animals roaming through the house, I have several friends like that. Have you seen animals laying on the table? Very controversial issues, it seems.

It's easier to feel for someone who is grieving their pet's death possibly, and if folks want to limit this thread to that issue, than let's do it.

Soho the cat did not work out so here you say you got a kitten.

I think a book about raising kittens/cats would help you. Punishing a cat or kitten will not work.

Showing dominance over a kitten or cat is a waste of time. Maybe you would be happier with a dog? They can be trained.

Kittens change so much . You have forgotten what Mia was like. Maybe she was a laid back quiet cat/kitten but every one is different. You will not be able to change your cat's personality.

I think Kserah is right you want your cat back and no other cat will make you happy.

Hey lets take a breather here on swatting a cat or dog or horse for that sake.
I swat is not a beating, it's really not even hitting.
This thread is about love of animals and I sure have it after spending 480 on a barn cat last week (we now know why he's a barn cat:Spraying) and he didn't come back dipped in gold. Everyone I know would have put that cat down in my area. Not me. I'm sorry if tapping (better word that swatting, maybe?) on the head or other body part to get that animals attention is considered abuse by some. It's just not abuse. I also do this to the young horses I have as they are trying to use the cats upright tails as teething tools. I'm positive this made the cat happy since it still has it's tail. This does not hurt him since he's 1100 lbs but he stops. Sometimes voice commands do not work fast enough.
Cats hate water. If a cat could pick I wonder which they would prefer, a tap or a spray? My cat wouldn't come near me for days if I used water and I know it.
SoHo 5 months is still kitty land. I swear the mind settles around 6 to 7 months. A friend of mine who does serious rescue says at that age they are so hard to adopt since they are now acting like adult cats. Two more months to go. Just think of it as a colic child. It does end at some point
K

Well trust me on this one--if you go to an animal shelter and see a kitten with an AK47, it would be smart to just smile and walk on by! He's trying to tell you something. On the other hand, should he be holding a fishing pole and playing with a worm, he's probably a pretty laid back guy. But slap him even once and he's gone! People forget that cats are survivors. They either adapt, find and old shack or suck up to somebody with better cat food. They are True Masters. My respect for them holds no boundaries.

Cats own people, not the other way around! They will manipulate you until the irises of your eyes are vertical---just like theirs.!

Geez Kserah that was funny and oh so true.

Some people don't like cats because they are so independent.

Right now I have a black and white cat coming to eat every day. He lives up the street but they don't feed him enough. He was so thin but now he looks good. He is so handsome but my cats hate him.

Ive always been a dog guy, never had any use for cats. Until now that is... My girl and I have been cat sitting her Sister's Cat for the last week, and we will have her for almost a month while they are off traveling the world. I just love this little thing. Already she has adapted to our home, and to the both of us. She will come and sit on my lap, rub up against my leg and purr like, well like a cat

We are already thinking about going to the local animal shelter to adopt.

we had a dog that we had to put down last year at 14 years old. My girl took it hard. I never thought we would get another pet, but this cat has revived her, and me as well..

I am not a good cat sitter. I would get attached.

It is amazing how a cat can be such good company. I love dogs but they require a lot of attention. Cats will lay in your lap and purr and then go off and do their own thing.

I have a cat that loves spinach. Every evening he comes running when I open the fridge. He cries like I have something wonderful. He knows when I am preparing a salad.

It is nice that the cat you are caring for has adjusted so well. That shows you are taking good care of kitty cat.

Some weird assumptions about "using" something other than water to discipline an animal. Anybody who has talked with me or gotten to know me over a long period of time, and Muse I thought you would know me, would never take "using" a ruler or flyswatter as a means of me beating an animal into cringing.

Good Lord, thank you Tango for understanding what I meant as a tap, you can yell all you like and say no all you like, and watch as the kitten, or any animal with no training keeps on going. Thanks Muse, for suggesting the book, but if it isn't using behavioral techniques to change unwanted behaviors, what would it be teaching? Watch many animal trainers who use discipline with "tools" to get the animal's attention, followed by offering a type of gratification to keep the animal interested in learning new behaviors. This goes on for a long, long period of time until the animal no longer needs discipline to comply and please it's master. Nobody said to copy Pavlov's destructive methods to create learned helplessness, although it explained the Stockholm syndrome.

Actually, the cat is coming along nicely and I'm beginning to understand why so many do not share here. I can't believe I did. I do like the reverse perversion of the cat with the machine gun, wonder if anyone else caught the significance of that. No, an animal requires training, maybe you didn't get the word "structured" home. A cat or dog owns a person only when the person is too lazy or indifferent to train the animal in social, compliant, good behaviors.

Do your cats jump on visitors' laps? How did your cats learn respect, was it just inbred somehow? I've had a cat since I was 7 years old, and the idea for many is when out of control, open the door, it's time to go out.

This is getting too bizarre, and many of those criticizing me are strangers to me, except for you Musician. Yes, I whip that cat until she's bleeding. Let me go buy that book right away.

way back when, when I had pets, I played "stretch kitty".
Some might call it abusive?
Find cat while it's been napping, all mellow half asleep.
Pick it up under the arms like you would a toddler
Note how well it 'stretches' in length.
The more relaxed kitty is, the more he stretches.
Hold him up to the door post and mark from toe to ear tip.
Different days, times, kitty will shrink or lengthen,
depending on his mood.
..........sssssssstretccchhhh kiiiitttttttyyyyy........... den kis em on da mouth, he love you bak

soho you are putting words into my mouth. I never said any such thing so don't go there. Beating a cat into submission? Aren't you exaggerating a bit. Who said that besides you?

You did not get Kserah's post at all. You totally misunderstood it.

I mentioned a book not to deal with discipline but to find out what cats are all about. You do not know at all. Cats can use a litter box and understand a loud "No" and that is it. If you rap, tap, snap with a ruler as you stated, whatever word you want to use, you make a cat mean.

Let's not talk about wild big cats. We just had a lawsuit here where three boys threw rocks at a tiger and the tiger got out of the cage and managed to kill one of the boys. Yet the people who fed him and cared for him said he was gentle.

I have raised cats since I was three and have rescued too many too count. I know all about cats. I know hitting or tapping or any of that is not going to change their behavior.

I stay off threads if I am not knowledgeable on a subject but damn it I do know cats.

You do what you want with your kitten. If it makes you feel good I cannot do anything to change your mind. You sound like you cannot tolerate that kitten just as you could not stand the other one. Too bad it could have found a loving home.

Just don't put words into my mouth please. Also that remark Kserah made was taken so wrong. Yes I am sure if you go to a shelter a cat will be holding a machine gun. You don't get it.

I refuse to argue with a person who knows nothing about cats.

By the way my cats do not get on my company's laps and they all stay in except for two. They do not get on tables. I have posts for them because they like to be high up and they have cat beds and they love them.

My cats are loving and sweet and my only problem is my cat Tommy is a bully but a loud " No" stops him right away.

Calling people lazy or saying they put them outside is ridiculous. Kittens are frisky not evil as you have stated.

You do need to buy that book.

If you talk to anyone who owns cats and say you are training your cat to comply they will think you have rocks in your head.

We tried to talk about lighter things but you had to come on and start it all over again. It is Soho's way or no way.

I'm not an expert at kitties, but I do love mine. As I teach them not to do something all I do is a loud "psssst" sort of like a hiss. It seems to discourage them. Since I'm not as mobile as I used to be I used that sound along with a squirt gun to discourage them from jumping on the counter. It really works. I feel like it teaches them without harm. What do you think?

One of my favorite Saturday morning radio shows is called: Calling All Pets. Drat I should now say was: Calling all pets by Patricia Mcconell. She stopped doing live broadcasts in june. She has a blog at: http://www.patriciamcconnell.com She is an animal behaviourist. She is so sympathetic with animals and I thought had many great ideas for problem behaviours. Sorry to jump in here I am having another insomnia night.

Funny what kserah said about cats.

It's true, I believe, that no one ever "owned" a cat.
I've only had one cat that I really loved, but knew I never owned him.
We were just friends :>)

Dogs, on the other hand, seem to need to be "owned" ?

Maybe it goes back to nature ?
In the wild, cats are loners, while dogs are pack animals who always have a dominate dog.

I think a dog likes to see it's owner as the "Big Dog" who is dominate ?

No one can ever dominate a cat. You can make a cat afraid of you, but never can one turn a cat into an outright dependant animal, like a dog.

May sound crazy, but I think the best way to raise kittens is to get 2 from the same litter and very young.
They will be great entertainment as they will have each other to play with and run out all their energy and mischief.
So much fun to watch !
They will also play at fighting and learn that teeth and claws hurt !!
Think it helps them learn not to bite and scratch the hand that feeds them ?

Just a theory, but it worked for me.

Don't want another cat or dog.
Don't want anything that is going to out live me.
Maybe a gold fish ?

NiceGuy,
I can confirm your theory, at least anecdotally.
I've had cats all my life and while I adored all of them, they have all had one behavior issue or another (litterbox issues, etc.)
I've had single cats and cat pairs (non-litter mates) but the most well adjusted cats I've ever had are my current cat brothers who were inseparable from birth. In fact the reason I have both is because the adoption agency (community concern for cats) refused to allow me to adopt just one of them.
These kitties are amazing in their love for one another. In fact when one of my babies nearly died last year his brother saved his life with a blood transfusion and the most incredible aspect of this incident was that when I asked the vet to try not medicate the donor brother (I was hoping to reduce the risk to him) and while they thought I was completely out of my mind (and I was out of fear of losing them both) they were amazed when the donor brother snuggled in next to his very ill litter mate, calmly allowed them to shave his neck and was unfazed when they placed a large needle directly into the carotid artery in his neck and licked and purred for his brother for the several hours it took for the transfusion.
I highly recommend adopting litter mates, in this case two kittens are actually easier to raise than one.
And, to all of you who have lost their beloved babies (PharmaKarma, SoHo, et. al) my heart goes out to you. I've revisited this thread several times and can't make it 20 seconds without dissolving into tears out of sympathy for your loss. My thoughts are with you.
Catyvid

Novakitty.

That psss sound does work. It is the sound a mother cat makes when she is trying to warn her kittens. She will also growl to protect her kittens to let them know danger is lurking.

As for getting two kittens. My cats all come in pairs and litters. They have so much fun together and watching them is entertaining.

People who travel get a pair of kittens. They get so attached to each other but they also have plenty of love for their owners.

I realize that right now every cat I own was feral. With the exception of a few they are completely tame.

I took this excerpt to go back to my original point. It is not domination over the animal that is the purpose, but the animal accepting who the dominant member of the household is, WHEN IT'S A HUMAN. Of course we're not talking about wild animals, yes, let me tap the tiger, that might work. If you've never heard the words 'extinguishing behaviors' what can I say? AND WHERE DID I SAY I DO NOT LOVE OR I HATE THIS CAT? Muse, you know how you focus on a detail, and you continue to do that. I'm not arguing this anymore, and how well you know how to handle cats and telling me to buy a book or that I don't understand another poster is not helping me, for sure.

But please keep rescuing cats, it's a noble work and you probably are good at it. As said in the past about other topics, please let's put this to rest. Soho

I thought we had put it to rest. We are talking about cats in general and how they like being in pairs and how we enjoy our cats.

Cats cannot be dominated. I will leave it at that. They may do it with one another as there is always an alpha cat in a multiple cat household but as for an owner dominating a cat good luck Soho.

I don't know Musician, maybe it's the beard I grew and all these garments. God they're heavy and keep slipping around.
And between the beard and 10 yards of fabric sitting on my head, go figure.

Forget going to the bathroom, have to wear diaper, but changing it is one of my cat's chores.

Quick question---how can you tell what the cat is thinking? When will you ba able to discern that the feline knows its place in the house? Is it in the form of a pop quiz or should they study for an exam?

Cats, especially, are so independent that even if kept in the house since birth, would figure a way to survive if it got out of the house. So let us know when the cat salutes when you walk in the door. Better yet, take a picture. It sounds hilarious.