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#969253 - 11/24/09 08:25 PM
Re: edrugsviaweb.com
[Re: winterlong1]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1345
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wow, that surprises me.
until recently (i was told cats and dogs - i will admit), there were NO pain meds that weren't dangerous. small amounts of valium were okay. other than that - nothing.
recently, my vet of quite a long time offered after an operation on a cat liquid nubain (swallowed, not injected) for a few days as what they had finally found to be a safe alternative to cats for pain. that didn't surprise me, since it's an agonist/antagonist - they use it on women in labor. dangerous for someone who uses pure opiates, but fine if you don't use them. i was surprised. i've had cats (living on my own) for over 30 years, and every time i was told there were no pain killers safe for cats or dogs. tylenol, for example, will kill them quite quickly, as will aspirin apparently. i'm not sure what the opiate deal is - probably the dosage is so small, it's not manufactured.
i know dogs can be much larger than cats - but if they finally approved nubain for cats only in the last several years, i doubt dogs were getting much in the pain med area either.
i've *never* heard of anything like tramadol on animals, particularly human dosages. I've had a lot of experience with pain management for a large breed dog. (100 lbs) Tylenol will not necessarily kill a dog, but it's not the best for them. When our dog was suffering from severe arthritis, one of her old vets hemmed and hawed about giving opiates, but only because of the fear of getting hassled by the DEA about it. I told him upfront that I would give the dog 1/2 norco tablet from my prescription when the pain got bad as I would not let her suffer, period. He said that he understood completely and would do the same for his own dog if need be. His only warning to me was to be careful on the tylenol intake (1/2 norco would not hurt her when she had a rough night). He did end up writing a script for her for hydrocodone with atropine. The DEA gives them less of a problem with that combo as the atropine is apparently unpleasant for humans if abused. He was also concerned that I was giving her my meds and I'd run out early on my own meds. Told him if he would not write for an opiate, I'd suck it up and get by. If she needed it more than me, so be it. And yes, I also told my physician about it. He also said he understood and would do the same thing for his own dog but said he would not write for extra meds to cover me when I ran out early. Again, fear of getting in trouble with the DEA. I fired one vet because he outright refused to give her opiates and actually said he didn't want to turn the dog into an addict. I looked at him like he was nuts and asked him if he thought the dog could sneak into the medicine cabinet, open the bottle and take more than prescribed in order to get high. He admitted that what he said sounded pretty stupid but he didn't think opiates were ever appropriate for animals. Ba-Bye Dr. Fired. Gone. See ya. I did receive newsletters for CP management in pets for a long time and I remember reading an article from a vet that specialized in CP management in dogs. She stated that in her opinion, opiates were THE gold standard in the management of CP in arthritic dogs, but most vets are not educated in this area or they are afraid of the friendly folks at the DEA. Her DOC for these dogs was oxycontin or the Duragesic Patch. Our dog had CCL surgery at one point, which was extremely painful. My husband is not a "crier" but he had tears in his eyes when he brought her home from that surgery. She was sent home wearing one 75mg and one 25mg Fentanyl patch but could not be moved without pain. Then the meds wore off after 48 hours. This dog was howling in agony and it's not like we could pick her up easily, lift her into the car and get her into the vet's office. Well he did something I will never forget. He told me to come into his office and get another patch and also had his tech waiting there to "train me" on how to give an IM injection of Bupe. He could have gotten in trouble for sending me home with a syringe of that stuff, but he knew he had to do something, as he could hear her wailing when I called him in a state of panic. I practiced on an orange and they had his dog there as a stand in so I'd know exactly which muscle to inject. Sped all the way home, ran in the door, and could not believe I was able to jab that needle in the muscle in her butt. Never thought I could do something like that as I have a needle phobia, but when a loved one is in agony, you'll do anything to stop the suffering. Within 2 minutes she stopped howling. She was out of it within 3 minutes and fell asleep as I was changing out the pain patch. He called an hour later to check on her and I told him she looked stoned out of her mind when she wasn't snoozing. He said that's what he wanted to hear. The Bupe was for immediate relief as apparently it takes hours for the Fentanyl to build up in the body and take away the pain. So yeah...animals can and do take opiates and in my opinion, they are woefully UNDER prescribed. They work better than anything else for severe pain in pets. That they are generally given that garbage duramaxx for severe arthritis is a tragedy. I know that small animals are also prescribed Bupe for post surgical pain, as I had to give it in liquid form by mouth to a small animal a few years back. I feel lucky to have found vets that believe in alleviating the suffering of animals and will do what it takes to get them comfortable. There's no need to dismiss the option of opiates for pets when the pain they are experiencing is severe. Perhaps a few pet owners would take their pet's meds, but my guess is most would not be that selfish. Just a common sense warning though. For any animal, please check with a vet before giving ANY meds. You are correct that some common human meds can kill a pet. Also, remember that our dog weighed as much as a small woman. I would not advise giving a smaller animal 1/2 norco by any means. If your pet is constantly suffering in pain, I would not hesitate to ask for your vet to write for opiates.
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#983821 - 12/25/09 02:22 AM
Re: edrugsviaweb.com
[Re: SoHoTribeca]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 2564
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I gave up hope, got up at 6:30 a.m. to write an contact memo to them that the order was printed, but wanted to see how well this new company worked for me and I was expecting it before Christmas. That I had a large order ready to go, but trying a small order first. It had been 4 days since order. Weeellll,later today Fed Ex calls me and asks my building #, saying the driver is coming in a short while.
So, for the first time, I pick through my wallet and pick out $20, all I had in cash in a home made envelope. Never was the driver before. He knew the others I described, and went through some changes that he would up with the envelope. So I told him, 'you're the one who came and brought me what I need on Christmas Eve, so you do want you want. I thanked him and wished him a blessed bla bla bla. Nice guy by the way.
FIRST TIME I USED RELIABLECARESERVICE.COM, SHEET OF PAPER INSIDE WAS LIKE THE OLD TYPE WHERE PHARMACISTS TOOK TIME TO MAKE AN IMPRESSION; NO COTTON, NOT GOOD WRAPPING, NOTHING BROKE, AN AMERICAN DOC FOR A PROVIDER WHO SENT ME THIS FROM WASHINGTON STATE. THANK YOU GECKO, NICE EXPERIENCE.
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