Let's discuss.

A bit of background:

The Governor of Florida, said to possibly be the front runner as the 2012 Republican Candidate and now evidently running for US Senate:

http://www.charliecrist.com/

Problem?

Well Crist is known to stand a hard line against many gay rights. He has appointed some of the toughest hardliners in his state for various positions. He has always voted with all the "anti-gay rights" bills that have come before him and been very vocal about this.

Now if this is his belief, I don't have an issue with this, we are all entitled to believe something is right or not. I do have issue with people living a double standard.

He is a very, very controversial person. His sexuality is of GREAT debate. It is said his wife is nothing but his beard and Crist is a closeted gay man. It is said that he, like many Republicans in the last few years, are closeted gays that have time and time again, voted against gay rights.

Thoughts?

And to add...I did watch a special on HBO onDemand about closeted gay Republicans and how they vote on these issues.

Crist had another relationship that was "questionable" and the people that did this documentary that I watched contacted her about a statement on his sexuality.

Her response was basically, I shouldn't say anything about that, but "contact me in 10 years and then I WILL have a story for you".

Gosh, I have so many thoughts on this, I don't know where to begin.

First, this guy went out of his way to be a hypocrite, and it leaves me a bit nauseated. So, I've no sympathy for him whatsoever.

But I also think we've created a culture where everyone is in everyone else's bedrooms. I don't like that either. Probably a great many potentially great leaders never tried to lead because everything is a known now--there are cameras EVERYWHERE/

I'll be back with more when I hear from all sides on this.

Again, Crist, himself, doesn't seem to merit much in the way of anything. It's more that he was elected on the kind of platform he ran that I think shows how distracted we've become.

Hypocrites and Rhinos.
Clean House!

Well one thing to remember that there has been no proof of his sexuality.

The issue I have if he really is a closeted gay man, would be him voting against what he is, just to be elected. Many in the Republican Party have done this. They were threatened with being outed and came out themselves. I'll find the name of that documentary later if anyone wants to see it. It's interesting to say the least.

Also I'm of the thought that I do have an issue with a POTUS being faithful to his wife. I feel if he can't be faithful to his wife and family, how do we know he will be faithful to this country? That was one of my issues about Clinton and then he ended up with those military secrets and China. He wasn't faithful to this country either.

So it is kinda sticky...for John Doe, things like that don't have any bearing on the Country, but can for the POTUS.

Bravo Stacy! Totally agree.
BTW O&W is missing and I'm kinda worried.
His walker may have been stolen and he's unresponsive.
I do hope they afford him a wheel chair in the future.
NHS pays for that I'm sure.

But all of history has shown that some--nay--most of the greatest leaders have been poor husbands or wives.

It's not a matter of should; it's a matter of is.

Poor husband or wife and unfaithful one. That's a big difference, IMO.

Anyone pm him lately? Some people have their setting so they get an email message with every PM they get.

Unfaithful. Lots and lots of that amongst the great leaders.

Yes I know. Have they all be faithful to their people? We might not ever know for sure.

Now I'm not saying if a man can't be faithful to his wife he can't be faithful to his coutry, is a fact. It is more of basically the way I feel about it.

Also one of the big things is a scandal like that IMO, but our leader in a bad light with other countries. All that stuff that went on with Clinton really made him look bad to other world leaders.

Not saying that it is right that it makes them look bad to other leaders,just it DOES happen. I think that scandal caused many other world leaders to not have much respect for Clinton.

Kinda like if a women is really drunk and is dancing around naked in front of a group of drinking me. Something is likely to happen to her and it is not right if it does. There are some positions that we can't put ourselves in because something can happen and it isn't right if something does.

Well, we could start with King David. He was faithful to his people, but he let horneyness get the best of him up until his death. Solomon was no better. Over in Egypt and then in in Rome, well, you know what they did in Egypt and Rome.

Go through the Russians Czars, including Catherine, or we can visit England--or anywhere really. China, Japan, Mongolia. You name it. The majority of those most faithful and beneficial to their nations and their people could not keep their pants on to save their lives.

I don't claim to know WHY it is, just that it is.

I was just reading an article about Bush W. doing the same basic thing. I Guess they all have some good rashinal for it.

Dam thing is I have read both , and it all has to do with china. WTF is up with that. Why are all of are leaders , in bed with one of the most communist , and inhumane countries to there people.

With Clinton he unrestricted the sale of laser technology that could be used for making plutonium.
I don't understand why or what we were getting in return. It isn't like Clinton was making a personal profit.

Bush was selling weapons technology to china. Scary thing was , the technology could have been sold by china to Iran and Syria.

In both case's , ether one could have been used to upgrade china's own military. We wood never want to go to war with china. They have all are sh*t and more.

Stacy , they all have dirty hand's . Been that way since the beginnings of our country.

We could argue for days about which one had, has the dirtiest hand's.
C

should politician and honest ever be used in the same sentence?

If we are talking about Clinton's BJ in the oval office. Most other countries really didn't give a F. Just because of what you have said in your post. Been going on sense the begging of society. like my wife says , Men are just DOGS!!
c

Good question Funky. I think we have been asking that question for the longest.
C

I think I remember him being a Yankee fan. He's most likely busy watching the games. Just an idea.

So, I guess by that logic, your wife wouldn't mind if YOU engage in that behavior? I mean men are just DOGS. Right?

where could the old curmudgeon be?

some are more doggy than others!

Yes, some are kitty kat!

Well I'm not disagreeing with anything y'all say or agreeing with it. As for how politicians are, I know how they are, I work with politicians. Don't know if we will ever have any politicians that are really honest and ethical.

Seems ones that go in and are that way, do one of two things:

1. Get even worse and move up the ladder.

2. Get out of politics quickly because they wouldn't cave in and it's too much of a fight.

But with Crist, there is a different matter here.

I just checked HBO onDemand and it looks like they have taken it off onDemand but it is scheduled to be on a couple more times in the next couple of days.

Here is the info about it:

http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/outrage/interview.html

Here is the link for the schedule for the next four showings:

http://www.hbo.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_DETAIL=DETAIL&FOCUS_ID=706669

I think this is the one I watched, didn't remember the name, but it looks like what I watched. It would be great if everyone could watch it for this discussion.

Here's a link t a google search for this documentary that some might be interested in looking at. There might be an online place where you can see the documentary.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...03f3b2a1b734003

This thread isn't just to discuss Crist, but there was a lot about him in the show and as I said, many think it is a very good possibility that he will be the Republican Candidate for 2012.

The issue I see in this discussion is not so of what goes on in their sex lives or bedrooms. That issue would probably be five or more threads long.

How does everyone feel about any politician being gay, hiding it and then seeming to vote against what that politician really is? So Crist is not the only one, he is just the most in the spotlight right now and he is still claiming he is not gay, which he might not be. This is more about how do you feel about gay politicians, any party, staying in the closet and then pushing to make sure any gay right issues are not passed?

I just looked quickly and didn't find his voting record on these issue, I'll try and look some more. What I found at Wiki (not a great source, but there is some info there) was this little snippet of info:



From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Crist

Maybe Bris can find something that shows his voting record on all these type issues and appointments he has made that seem to be against any gay rights.

How do y'all feel about a politician being gay, lying about it (I can see one doing this, probably wouldn't fault them for not coming out) BUT voting AGAINST gay marriage, adoptions for gays and appointing people to the Supreme Court that would also be against these things?

For me, being gay and not coming out is very different than being gay, not coming out and then voting COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than what he would (IF he is gay) were he out of the closet?

Like I said, there are others that have done that very thing and voted the same way as Crist has. Now that they have been forced out of the closet, they are changing the way they vote on these issues.

Is this just "Politics as normal" or is it worse than that?

If Crist IS gay, then I do have an issue with him being the Republican candidate. Not because of his sexuality, but because of a GREAT, GREAT hypocrisy, IMO.

That's almost to me like a woman that has had an abortion or two, believes they are ok, yet votes only Pro-Life and takes a hard stance on it.

These are the type Politicians that I really don't trust, regardles of my belief of the issue. For me a politician that can be that two-faced, and again for me it is way, way beyond politics as normal; is someone that is really a scary prospect as a possible POTUS.

If I don't agree with abortion (which is another of his controverisal issues) or gay marriage and we have a President that tries to make sure people are against these things, yet lives and believes otherwise, is a bad thing. You never know how they are going to act on other issues.

That's the big thing I'm talking about, not are these issues right or wrong.

I hope everyone can watch this on HBO in the next few days. If you don't have HBO, call your cable or sat company, order it, tape or watch this documentary, then call and cancel the HBO if you don't want to keep it. The cost for those few days will be about the same to rent a movie or even less.

I saw the HBO documentary you are talking about. I'm not sure how I felt about this group outing hypocritical politicians. Don't get me wrong, I hate hypocrites. It's just that I almost felt sorry for the family men that were outed. I am no fan of Cris, but what if he is gay and came out and admitted it. Then he ran for president on 2012. We can't say no homosexual would ever be elected president. Five years ago most of us probably thought we would ever see the day a black man could be elected either.

It was an interesting documentary wasn't it?

I'm not sure how I felt about them outing people also. On one hand I did feel sorry for all involved, but on the other hand, because they were voting the way they were about these issues and then living a different life, I can also understand the truth needed to come out.

It's hard to say.

I would feel better about a truthful homosexual President over one that is lying, hiding, supporting the things he is. To me at that point his sexual preference IS AFFECTING THE PUBLIC.

I'm not homosexual, but if I was I would be LIVID at the people doing this. The ones doing this are doing things that actually SERIOUSLY affect the lives of people in the US only to cover up something about themselves.

That is a DANGEROUS politican, not even a bad politican, IMO. That is a politican that would get us into a war to hide something about his personal life I think.

DANGEROUS!

Is there some reason you have to come and attack me every chance you get. I am not going to put up with this much longer. I am going to consider it harassment. I am asking you nicely. Please.
C

Stacy. I don't know if that man is gay or not. I guess it well be up to the voters.

I just don't know what to think about a relationship between to people. What if he is gay and his wife knows. Is that personal.

Now your right , if he is gay , and his record speaks differently.

I think that is up to the voters of that state.

I have real mix feelings about homosexual's. I am a christen , and that go's against my beliefs. But the bible says that I should love every one. I become real confused.

The president says he believes marriage is between a man and a women. But he also believes in gay rights. I respect him for that.
C

It's not just up to the voters of that state Chuckee. That's why I put his name in the title.

The thinking is that he is going to be next Republican Candidate for President of the US. He is also running for the US Senate in 2010 now.

The problem and the reason for this thread, is there have been many politicians recently that said they believe marriage is between one man and one woman and they vote to keep things that way, but we find out many of those people were lying.

They didn't think marriage was just one man and one woman, they were gay men living a lie and voting a lie also.

If he is closeted and has been a hypocrite, I believe that is a matter of seriously faulty thinking. That would make him, in my opinion, not a critical thinker and therefore a bad candidate for office. Not to mention, a sorry excuse for a human being.

If he isn't closeted, yet takes a hard line against the rights of gays, that makes him, in my opinion, a person who is a bad candidate for office because he does not believe in equal rights under the Constitution (especially if he does not believe in equal rights on account of his religious beliefs. That has no place in government.)

If he is gay, and has acted on that urge with another person, he won't dare run for President, because that person WILL show up in one form or another. His gayness won't be as much of an issue as his hypocrisy. In fact, the gayness would open up an interesting discussion, but the hard line against gay rights? Nah.

And I agree with Bris, we really have to get out of people's bedrooms.

Hypocrisy is one thing.

What you do with another consenting adult is your business. Even if you are a dog. Then it is your business, the business of the doggee, and the business of the husband or wife (and possible kids and other dogs) of the dog in question, and oh, yeah, the neighbors and TMZ and People magazine and all the gossipers, most of whom are also dogs, and well, you the picture....

But just being plain old gay? (and not even a dog?) Who cares?

Well you said "in my opinion" but I feel that if he isn't gay and takes a hard line on some things, I think that is ok. If a person believes that homosexuality is wrong, and they don't agree with gay marriage, then I don't have a problem with them voting to not allow gay marriage or some of the others issues connected with it, maybe not all of them.

Also if they believe that homosexuality is ok, I don't have a problem with them voting to allow gay marriage and some of the other issues connected with it.

We all have the right to believe if something is wrong or right and to want to have things that will protect what we believe is right.



One little tidbit here, all people that believe homosexuality is wrong don't necessarily believe it is wrong due to religious beliefs. Many people have other reasons to think it is wrong.

This isn't about if they are gay or not even, that is a whole different matter. The only reason that the question of his sexuality is because of his voting record on these issues and people believing he is gay. Like I said, he isn't the first one this has been an issue about. There have been members of Congress that are voting against gay marriage, gay couples being able to adopt and have been found out to be gay.

His sexuality is only being called into question because of his voting record. I haven't been hearing anyone say him being a gay man makes him a bad candidate for anything. They are saying he is a bad candidate because he is a gay man and working against the gay community basically to get further in his political career or either to protect himself and not tell his family and friends, or both. The only reason his sexuality is an issue is because the issues that he is voting against concern a person's sexuality. Just considering his sexuality, that in itself is not a big deal and if he weren't voting against all the gay rights, I don't think people would be bringing up his sexuality nor would he be so controversial.

Let me ask you this.

When people have found out there are closeted gay Congressional members stating publically that homosexuality is wrong and voting in ways that say they believe homosexuality is wrong, how do you feel about journalist, etc outing them?

Is this the same as journalist finding out that a Congressional member is being hypocritical in other issue and then exposing their hypocrisy?

One of the reasons I can say that it is ok to out these people doing this is because they do know as a Politican what they do is going to be open to public review. That this is part of Politics.

There are many reasons why I can say it is NOT ok, there are other people this will hurt, etc.

His sexuality is only an issue because of his voting and appointment record. The single reason I would have a problem with him being gay is his voting and appointment record. It has nothing to do with the choices he makes for his lifestyle, but everything to do with his voting and appointment record.

Isn't this the same thing as one of them voting against the sale and use of pot for medical purposes, yet finding out they are going to another country to get pot for themselves for medical purposes?