I am not schooled enough , to get in to this debate. But I do have something to say.

I think some or all of our brave men and women , that are now joining the military , are enlisting because there is no jobs. They need to feed there families or maybe just them self.

There's nothing for them to do. Usually the poor , the minority's.

If we take Afghanistan. The people there cant read , wright. There is no real economy. They also fight for food!!

They are not fighting in Afghanistan for are freedom. They are fighting , so they can eat.

I am one that well honer the fine men and women that make it back.

But , I do understand the guy across the pond. That has the right to post on this board , same as us. We don't own it. If I agree or not. How can we say we believe in free speech , if we well not allow him the same.

And I do understand the concept of murder.

If one is fighting for food , I can see how one would call it murder.

Also , I have talk with different PPL at different times. The Iraq war, Vietnam war
. What tens to happen, you kill for hate. Your buddies are being killed and you start killing back , because you hate the S.O.B'S.

I remember talking with my uncle when he came back from Nam. If you were the Vietcong, he was going to kill you, and your family. You were sub human. He would cut off the Vietcong ears and wear them on his belt. He was no longer fighting for our freedoms. He was fighting because he hated them and every thing about them.

I know I am taking a chance here. But I have to call that murder. I know because of war , it is a different kind of murder. But never the less murder.

I am sorry guys . I do honer all that fight for our country.
C

Thank You nice , I could not have said it better. I tried to make sense , but I just don't have your fine literary skills.
C

Hey guess what, I don't want to listen to your drivel, but that's the beauty of it. BECAUSE OF OUR MILITARY, I'M ALLOWED TO SPOUT MY DRIVEL WHERE EVER I WANT.

Now that's more to my understanding!
Thanks Stacy, makes sense.
The other intellectual material from the higher-ups
is beyond my scope.

Well in this case, all of that does not matter, I believe it is silly of the OP trying to even bring all that in.

Bottom line is this:

We have a military.
We have a CIC.
We have Rules of our military.
We have a VOLUNTEER military.
There are Rules in everything in life.
If you don't agree with the military, YOU DON'T HAVE TO JOIN, unlike some other countries where they go grab young boys and take them from their families and force them.

All this crap about people wanting to be killers so they join the military is just stupid. Our military has been involved in action for a SHORT TIME, but THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME, the largest majority of the military do NOT see action.

That was a big subject of debate when all this stuff with Iraq started years ago. There were TONS of people in the military UPSET they were going into action. They joined the military and didn't think they would have to actually go fight.

I know several people that have had numerous tours between them, some have had three tours. The LAST thing they wanted was to have to fight, but they know there are times it is necessary.

I have a friend that has had to kill during all this and for someone to say the military wants to, turns my stomach. This guy had to kill to PROTECT HIMSELF and it has really been hard on him.

I can deal with people having their opinion that is different than mine, but to say this crap about our military, is just disgusting.

This is why a draft is a bad idea, because it puts individuals who do not freely choose to submit in a difficult position. Rebellion will ensue.
However, it is clear that the ones at the top, as you say, do not necessarily have the good of the lower beings utmost in their plans.
Should we then feel sorry for soldiers who serve? To a certain extent, they ARE duped. They join because they find the rhetoric believable, or they need the money, or many other reasons. If a person is led astray by rhetoric that may or may not be true, is that person responsible for their actions?
In civilian life, they would be considered an accessory at the very least.
These are hard questions.

I disagree about being duped. My family and friends that have joined knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

Why did they join? Because they KNOW there are people needed to support our Country and guess what? They are very proud to serve our Country.

We do not have the draft anymore, so we don't have the issue of people that don't believe in the military being forced to serve.

Thanks to the people that do volunteer, there is no draft at this time. There are people still willing to put their life on the line to protect the many and I for one, appreciate that. Even if I did not agree with a war, I would NEVER have anything but support for the soldiers involved, they will always have my 100% support for the job they do.

Perhaps cg0000 should live for awhile in a country where people have not fought and died for his freedoms, he might have a different perspective of the individual soldiers.

Bris made the point earlier: "..we've been drilled with the obligation to Country being equal to obligation to God from the cradle." That is very strong in this country. Then our leaders use that motivation to send our soldiers into wars that may be questionable. The reasons are spun, worded carefully, and fed to us. Repeatedly. Every day. And to question that is called unAmerican. (although it is very American to question everything, those in power have it much easier if we don't ask the hard questions.)
That is what I mean by "being duped." They may be young, eager to please, they want to be good, they want to do the right thing. "For God and Country."

Stacy:

Gutsy, you state your points firmly, without personal attacks. I like the cut of your jib!

Maybe I should have worded that differently.

Some, probably "duped" but it's not just about this issue. Many were raised to not even question their doctors, but that is changing.

I don't agree that all or most are duped and follow blindly. Most people in the military have the INTELLIGENCE to know we need a military and why we need the military.

I can't imagaine anyone that would not prefer we never need a military, but obviously, that is not the case.

Stacy. This is just a question. What about the people that really don't believe in the military , and are forced to serve there country , out of no job's. Need to make a living.

The key words here are, "don't believe and forced"

Not trying to argue, just your opinion.
C

They aren't forced chuckee. You can't tell me there is someone that can't find some kind of job somewhere. Might not be the job they want, but hey, $7.00 an hour is $7.00 hour more than ZERO.

If someone can join the military, get FREE TRAINING AND SCHOOL, that sounds like an opportunity, which an opportunity is not something that is forced, you MAKE the decision.

Well my friend. I guess we well agree to disagree.
C

Chuckee, years ago there were people forced to go into the military rather than serve time for some crime they committed.

Guess what? It seemed to reform people much better than the prison system.

We have a big issue these days of many people not wanting to take jobs that are "beneath" them, not everyone, but many people are that way these days.

Then, the next question would be: What is the purpose of the military? (that answer is obvious.)

The next question would be: Has the military been used exclusively for that purpose?

Well I guess that depends on what YOUR answer is for the purpose of the military and how much is involved there.

If you think the purpose of our military is to protect our country on our soil only, the answer would be no.

But...

I don't think that is the purpose of our military.

If a person thinks that things going on around the world will not affect us, that is faulty thinking.

To use an example: Was the military used responsibly in the case of Viet Nam?

How about Grenada?

Well, not exactly. I'm not saying that anything is drivel, mind; I'm saying that you cannot say whatever you want wherever you want. The government can't stop you from saying what you please, but on or in any private venue, you have no such rights.

That's why I appreciate Admin kinda letting the politics thing roll most of the time. He doesn't HAVE to do that. He could, for instance, quash any opinion differing from his own. Personally, I think this approach makes the board more interesting as long as we're all able to roll with the punches.

But, we do NOT have the right to free speech on this board, in a store, in someone else's home or any other privately owned place.

And there you go. It's not real unless it hits home. When it's everyone's son, daughter, husband, wife, aunt, uncle, etc who's going to have to go, we, as a nation, might take "Let's nuke the bastards" a little more seriously. We might want to ponder it a bit.

Well are you talking about the decision to first go into these issues or everything involved?

There is a lot of background of WHY the US was involved in these issues. Yeah, a lot of times hindsight is 20/20 but we don't have the luxury of operating on hindsight, do we?

We will always have issues of allies, the UN, etc. Personally, I think the UN is the biggest waste of time there is.

If we turn our back on an allie or ignore an enemy is that wise?

Even if a President doesn't take it seriously, the POTUS can NOT make that decision alone.

When we already have members of Congress sitting around being paid well to play politics for a living, can we really expect them to take things seriously?

They ALL have their agendas at the forefront no matter the issue. Politics was played during the decision to go to Iraq and is STILL being played concerning Iraq.

Which is the point I was making in our other discussion as well.

I don't disagree that Politics is play by EVERY politican.

I am so for term limits to put a stop to this, I believe that is the ONLY way it might stop. Politics should never be a career.

Politics is PLAYED IN EVERY DECISION EVER MADE by the Politicians.

You and I might disagree on the Politics being played in the decision to go to Iraq.

What politics do I think were played? Probably some of Congress that might not agreed to go to war, voted to because they were afraid they would be voted out in the next election if they didn't.

When we do NOT have term limits for EVERY SINGLE POLITICAL OFFICE ON EVERY LEVEL, the people make decisions that are the best for their OWN CAREER.

It should never be that way and the only way to stop it is term limits.

We all know there are limits to freedom of speech. We can say how much we dislike the President, but if you talk about killing him, you are going to pay for that.

We also can't yell "fire" in a movie theater, that will land you in jail.

I'm not talking about politicians here, not in particular, anyway. I'm talking about the nation in whole. I've never been for a draft, but I see what's happening now is that certain segments are so isolated from the risks that they take war far too lightly.

I don't disagree with that statement. There are people that don't really realize the true cost of war.

I think of people in countries who have actual war going on right in their neighborhoods. Uniformed soldiers, killings, bombings, aerial assaults, the whole thing.

I wonder how the average American would react if this were going on down the street from them. (well, duh, you know how we would react.)

We are too removed from the realities of what some of us advocate.

I think our military is what keeps us from having that happen.

Is that a bad thing?

A wise person once said: "We are too removed from the realities of what some of us advocate."

LOL, you didn't answer my question.

Is it a bad thing we don't have soldiers in our streets and fighting on our soil?

I really believe if we had not done something after 9/11 we would have seen many more attacks here in the US.