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#957682 - 11/08/09 12:50 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: chuckee]
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Old Hand
Registered: 07/21/04
Posts: 413
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chuck, you are right, HMO's are worse than medicare. But that is the exact reason we need healthcare reform. But NOT universal healthcare. Just so you know though, the doctor receives probably around 30-40% more reimbursements than you from their private insurance. Also, you must understand that they are planning on cutting medicare reimbursements by another 22%, then imagine what it will be like. And add on to that, the government will run out of money for it soon. I just cannot understand where they will get the money for that. Maybe print some more money, but how is that possible when we have already done that by a severe severe amount. Last time we did that during Jimmy Carters reign, interest rates had to shoot up to 20%, yes i said 20% to stop the inflation. I acutally support medicare, because you as an employee pay into, but it would have been much more logical to have put that money into private accounts, instead of allowing our outta control con artists in congress spending that money on other junk.
What they need to understand is it is not their job to pass as many bills as possible. They need to pass only laws that we need and which are logical and will help us. I hate to think at the size of our current book of laws. Probably had to cut an entire rainforest just to print them out.
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#958037 - 11/08/09 05:22 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: riverboat]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5820
Loc: The Steve Doocy Fan Club
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am curious about something......Tigersmom, do you at the present time have health coverage???? Just wondering??? I do have basic Health Insurance, and I am only 12 years away from Medicare; I support Health Insurance Reform because I care about the 47 million Americans who cannot afford Health Insurance because it is too expensive, and getting more so all the time, I empathize with those who can't get affordable health insurance because they have a pre-existing condition, I support Healthcare reform because I commiserate with the man (or woman) who would like to strike out on their own with a business idea, but can't because their coverage is tied to a specific employer, and that is how their family is covered, I support Health Insurance reform because I empathize with the small business owner who would like to cover their employees, but simply can't afford to provide it, or those small businesses who have had to drop coverage because one of the employees became ill, and the Insurer dumped them. Since the Insurance Companies are a for-pay Monopoly who had a chance to self-reform and haven't done so, the only way that I see the working Americans who do without that I referenced above getting help is through Healthcare Reform that uses the so-called "Public Option" to level the playing field.
_________________________
"Prejudices are what fools use for reason."
- Voltaire
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#958069 - 11/08/09 06:11 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: chuckee]
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Account closed as user wants to start again with another username...
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 3300
Loc: mailbox
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You should look at the bright side Roch.
From what I understand you need some health care. Yes sir but there's no free ride. Either pay 2.5% of your income or go to jail/fine Small businesses who hire many employees would rather pay the 8% penalty(cheaper) then insure their employees. So everyone will be forced on the Govt plan or go to jail if they re-nig on the penalty. At least in jail we get 3 meals a day and don't have to endure the cap & Tax bill..
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#958186 - 11/08/09 08:46 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: painstaking]
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Board Addict
Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 331
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It's probably safe to say we are all pain patients. We may go to a primary doc for out appointments but it could be an ortho or pain management place. It typically costs $400 (could be more could be less depending upon dr.) to go without insurance. There are a lot of people - who are college educated, seeking employment, not on welfare or unemployment, etc - who must let their pain ravage all aspects of their life because they cannot afford to see a doctor, since they have no insurance to offset that pricey visit. Not only pain patients, but maybe someone who has been having chest pains, or someone who needs a particular (nonnarcotic) medicine but they cannot obtain adequate treatment because they can't afford the doctor bill either. So they just suffer and wait.
This is America and that is what is happening to a lot of good and decent people. Sure, there are people who are going to try to and beat the system. You know, the same way people like Bernie Madoff beat the system that is set up to stop these predators from stealing. We should not be penalized bc we cannot afford to see a doctor. Health is paramount (obviously duh!) and it's kind of funny because our elected officials make decisions in Washington which are supposed to be in our best interests, to sustain our quality of life and make it great to be in this country.
I suppose there are just a great number of people here who don't feel the same way, and it ironic that here, where pain patients link up with one another in a support system capacity, would be unsympathetic to another who cannot afford to seek relief, or even a doctor's opinion, on their health.
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#958188 - 11/08/09 08:47 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: meonlyits]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5820
Loc: The Steve Doocy Fan Club
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I read the blog and now I feel sick.
This bill is not what I assumed it was at all.
Don't feel sick because Stacy posted an interpetation of the Bill. Here is a rebuttal (Now y'all knew I would have to rebut "DixieGirl's" so called "Letter" to her Senator.) Health Care Checkup: A line-by-line rebuttal to false email By Kruger, Mike on August 4, 2009 4:30 PM There has been an email going around with a line-by-line critique of HR 3200 - the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act. Unfortunately, they are not based in truth, but designed to scare recipients. The email is quite long, so for some of the most egregious distortions of the health insurance reform legislation, please visit the Pulitzer prize-winning fact check site run by The St. Petersburg Times. Please note the spelling is in the original e-mail. RESPONSES TO LINE-BY-LINE H.R. 3200 ATTACKS Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit the books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! •Page 22 of H.R. 3200 requests a study, not an audit, of the effects to which rating Rules are likely to cause adverse selection in the large group market and employer self insurance market insurance market. This does not require an audit of ALL employers that self insure Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benes u get •Nothing in the bill infringes upon you and your doctor’s ability to make medical decisions. The National Health Benefits Advisory Council is not a “government committee” but is made up of providers, consumer representatives, employers, labor, health insurance issuers, independent experts and representatives of government agencies. They will make recommendations about minimum standards of care and covered benefits that insurance companies have to offer- ensuring that everyone has a health plan that provides them with adequate coverage. Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!! •This is a misreading of the text. This section limits the amount of out-of-pocket costs you will face to $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 (indexed to CPI) for a family for a basic package of care. This ensures you have access to affordable care and won’t go bankrupt paying for it. Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose UR HC Benefits 4 you. U have no choice! •The Health Choices Commissioner is charged with ensuring insurance plans are meeting regulations and minimum standards as well as administering affordability credits and monitoring the exchange. Nothing in this section or in the larger bill permits the Health Choices Commissioner to choose your benefits for you PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided 2 ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise •This is blatantly false. This section prohibits insurance companies from discriminating against persons when issuing coverage, and has nothing to do with government subsidized coverage to illegal immigrants. The bill explicitly states that no Federal payments will be used for affordability credits for illegal immigrants. (P. 143, sec. 246). Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access 2 individuals' finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued! •This section says nothing about a National ID health card, or accessing your personal financial information. This section promotes administrative simplification- for example being able to look up your insurance coverage and determine how much you will pay and which provider your insurance will accept, at the point of service. This saves money and gives you, the consumer, information about what you will owe at the front end, rather than being denied or getting a surprise bill from your insurance company weeks after your treatment. Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access 2 ur banks accts 4 elect. funds transfer •This section encourages the development of standards to encourage electronic payments between providers and insurance companies. Administrative simplification measures like these save billions of dollars. Nothing will give the government access to your bank account. PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan 4 retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN). •This section provides a limited reimbursement for participating employment-based private plans for part of the cost of providing health benefits to retirees (age 55-64) and their families. People who have been forced into early retirement in this age group do not qualify for Medicare and this will help them stay on their employer provided, private insurance plan if their employer wants to participate. Participation is voluntary. This is for all early retirees, and no language targets the provision towards unions or acorn. Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange 2 bring priv HC plans under Govt control. •The bill imposes new regulations on private health care plans that will force them to end unethical practices such as rescissions or denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions. The Exchange will improve the quality of coverage and increase the affordability of private insurers in the Exchange. PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs 4 priv. HC plans in the Exchange •Insurance companies in the Exchange will have to offer a basic benefit packages in every service area. This package will include basic care such as hospitalization, physician visits, medical equipment, mental health, preventative care, maternity and well baby care, and drugs – services that anyone would expect a real insurance policy to cover. Private insurers may offer a higher tier of coverage with more benefits that are not mandated by the government if they choose. PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration ur Healthcare! •No, this determines the minimum standards insurance companies must offer coverage for- it has nothing to do with rationing. Private plans can offer extra benefits like dental or vision coverage for adults, or other non-covered benefits that are not included in the basic level plan. PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic approp svcs. Example - Translation 4 illegal aliens •The bill requires plans in the Exchange to offer culturally and linguistic appropriate services. The U.S. is a diverse country culturally and linguistically. Many legal residents and citizens of the U.S. speak other languages, and implying that everyone of a different culture in the U.S. is here illegally is intolerant and incorrect. The bill explicitly states that it will not subsidize coverage for illegal immigrants. (P. 143, sec. 246). Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps 2 sign up indiv. for Govt HC plan •The Health Choices Commissioner will conduct outreach and enrollment activities to educate Exchange-eligible individuals and businesses about enrollment in the new Exchange, which includes many private plans along with the public option. This includes a toll-free hotline, maintenance of a website, creation of outreach materials, and community locations for enrollment. PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members - U Health care WILL b rationed •This section has nothing to do with seniors or Medicare. It describes the minimum benefits insurance plans must offer under the Exchange. PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will be automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice •Current law allows individuals to be auto-enrolled in Medicaid if they show up for health services and are eligible, so this is not a radical change. Only individuals that fall under 133% of the poverty level who have not had health insurance for six months will be auto-enrolled. pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monop •There is no judicial or administrative review for the payment rates set for the public option. pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what u can make. •This section outlines payment policies for physicians participating in the public option only. No physician has to take the public option. Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into pub opt plan. NO CHOICE •No. You get to choose your health insurance from the choices your employer offers you. If you fail to do so, your employer will auto-enroll you in the lowest premium health plan (for employees) unless or until you opt into a different plan. You could not be auto-enrolled into the public option in the vast majority of cases because the public option is not even available outside the Exchange (only to individuals and small businesses). The bill specifically mandates that employers provide employees with info on how to opt out of the auto-enrollment coverage. Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.(this will insure bankruptcies of many small businesses) •Employers will only pay a proportion of what they must pay for full-time employees. There is also a tax credit equal to 50% of the amount paid by a small employer for employee health coverage available to help with these costs and other protections to ensure that new requirements don’t cause undue hardship for small businesses. Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer w payroll 400k & above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll (this will insure more bankruptcies of many small businesses) •All businesses, except some small businesses that are exempted, must contribute to their employees’ health insurance. Most employers that are required to provide coverage under this bill already provide coverage—so little will change for them under this bill. They will continue to offer the coverage that they do today, and will not pay a tax. Some employers may choose to do so through the Exchange, but no employer nor employees will be forced to choose any option. Employers that don’t contribute to employees’ health care will make a contribution to the Exchange, so their employees can access coverage there. pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesn't prov. pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll (this will insure even more bankruptcies of many small businesses) •All businesses, except certain small businesses that are exempted, must contribute to their employees’ health insurance. Small businesses typically pay more for the same insurance that a large employer might offer. Small businesses will benefit from this legislation, because it will help lower their administrative costs and insurance rating, and increase options available to them. The House legislation helps level the playing field between large and small businesses that want to offer health insurance. Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according 2 Govt will be taxed 2.5% of inc (this insures the government can collect extra taxes from you anytime they want) •No, they can only collect the tax if you don’t have insurance and can afford to purchase it. Acceptable coverage includes grandfathered individual and employer coverage (ie what you have now providing your insurance company complies with new laws), certain government coverage (e.g., Medicare, Medicaid, certain coverage provided to veterans, military employees, retirees, and their families), and coverage obtained pursuant to the Exchange or an employer offer of coverage. Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from indiv. taxes. (Americans will pay) (this will attract more millions to America..... legally and illegally.... it will kill our economic engine....DEAD!) •Nonresident aliens and illegal aliens are not the same thing. A nonresident alien is a non-citizen in the country legally (for example on a visa) who has not resided in the country long enough to be considered a resident. This provision is consistent with current law governing tax treatment of non resident aliens. Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access 2 ALL Americans finan/pers recs •The Health Choices Commissioner can receive taxpayer return information from the Internal Revenue Service in order to assist the Exchange in determining subsidy eligibility. This is the only allowable use for this information. PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that •This is a technical wording to ensure appropriate function of the tax under the tax code. Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician svcs 4 Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected •Completely wrong. This section adjusts the way the sustainable growth rate (SGR) formula is calculated, helping to prevent massive cuts for physicians. All physicians and AMA are in strong support of this section. Also it is for Medicare, not Medicaid. Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty u have, you'll all be paid the same •Again, this still is part of the SGR adjustment- which applies to all specialties. Providers and AMA very strong supporters of this. PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans. •This section directs the Secretary to regularly review fee schedule rates for physician services paid for by Medicare. It allows the secretary to incorporate all the work that a doctor does outside of the procedure when evaluating fee schedules: such as time, mental effort and professional judgment, technical skill and physical effort, and stress due to risk, and may include validation of the pre, post, and intra-service components of work. This doesn’t have anything to do with the value of human lives. PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries (this will kill free enterprise and drive many out of business.... less resources yet available for the boomers) •This is a complete misreading of what this section is. This section updates the market basket payment for hospital outpatient services. Just because the word productivity is in there doesn’t mean it is mandating productivity of industry – it just holds providers accountable to the same level of productivity as the whole economy, putting them on a level playing field. PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs •No, this changes the way Medicare pays for power drive wheelchairs (13 month payments vs. one lump sum). It is essentially rent-to-own for power wheelchairs, and is one of the ways that Medicare already pays for wheelchairs. PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing! •This is the opposite of rationing. This section allows Medicare to pay cancer hospitals more if they are incurring higher costs. Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals 4 what Govt deems preventable readmissions. •Preventable readmissions are never desirable. Hospitals are dangerous places, and the more time spent in one, the greater risk of infection or harm to the patient. Right now, hospitals are paid for quantity of care, so the more you are readmitted, the more they get paid. This provision will help incentivize preventative measures and post-treatment coordination of care to keep you healthier. Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admiss that results in a readmiss-Govt will penalize u. •Preventable readmissions are never desirable. Hospitals are dangerous places, and the more time spent in one, the greater risk of infection or harm to the patient. Right now, hospitals and doctors are paid for quantity of care, so the more you are readmitted, the more they get paid. This will help incentivize preventative measures and post treatment coordination of care to keep you healthier. Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own. •This prohibits expansion of physician-owned hospitals because they often drive up costs, duplicate health services, drain resources from community hospitals, and provide perverse incentives for doctors to self-refer patients to hospitals they have a stake in to perform procedures. For example, if a doctor self-refers you for a heart operation, he makes money on the procedure and the hospital he owns makes money too. Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand •Same as above. pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!! •Physician-owned hospitals can apply for an exception to expand- and input of the community they serve is required to determine how valuable the hospital is to the patients they serve. Why does community automatically mean acorn? Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing •This section creates an incentive system to increase payments to high quality Medicare Advantage plans and plans that demonstrate improvement and better outcomes such as reduced readmissions, and better outcomes of its enrollees. This is about better quality care, not rationed care. A plan that cuts back on care and produces worse outcomes would not receive any extra payment. Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority 2 disqual Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps in2 Govt plan •This only says it can disqualify participating plans from Medicare Advantage. This would not result in seniors being forced into the public option. They would remain on Medicare (which is, by the way, a government plan). Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs ppl! WTF. My sis has down syndrome!! •This ensures that chronic condition special needs plans (SNPs) enroll beneficiaries only during their eligibility periods and extends the SNP program through 2012, and extends certain fully integrated dual eligible SNPs through 2015. Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Cmtte. Can u say HC by phone? 84 new govt agencies! •Telehealth is a critical service for rural populations and the disabled who may have difficulty traveling to health centers and hospitals. A committee at HHS does not constitute a new agency. This section expands Medicare’s telehealth benefit to beneficiaries who are receiving care at freestanding dialysis centers (ie very sick patients who have difficulty traveling). It Also establishes a Telehealth Advisory Committee to provide HHS with additional expertise on the telehealth program. PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life •There is no mandate for this sort of counseling. The only mandate is that Medicare must pay for the consultation between patients and practitioners to discuss plans for end-of-life care. These are important individual decisions that take time and consideration, and AARP supports inclusion of this planning provision. Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory! •Not mandatory! These are consultations between you and your provider, not the government. PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding u in death •CMS will provide planning resources to discuss with your doctor about how you would like to be treated in your final days. PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program 4 orders 4 end of life. The Govt has a say in how ur life ends •You decide how your life ends- that is the whole point of an advance directive. Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will b used frequently as patients health deteriorates •Those lines don’t say that. PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may incl an ORDER 4 end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV •No, an order from you for your doctor Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. •The bill specifies which categories of licensed health care professionals can write them but not which specific doctor – you can still choose your doctor. PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment u will have at end of life •No, you decide with your doctor Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services= Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!? •This section is the Medical home pilot program. This in no way refers to ACORN. Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based org. Like ACORN? •The community based medical home, is targeted at a broader population of Medicare beneficiaries with chronic diseases and allows for State-based or non-profit entities to provide care-management supervised by a beneficiary designated primary care provider. A provision inclusive of all non-profit entities in no way targets ACORN PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt in 2 ur marriage •Medicare will now cover state licensed marriage and family therapists. You are not forced to receive these services. Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those svcs •Medicare will now cover mental health counselors. It will not ration these services. Tags:AAHCA,health care reform,health reform suppose there are just a great number of people here who don't feel the same way, and it ironic that here, where pain patients link up with one another in a support system capacity, would be unsympathetic to another who cannot afford to seek relief, or even a doctor's opinion, on their health.
snippets there are just as many DBers who feel the way you do (I am one of them, and I write about it frequently.)
_________________________
"Prejudices are what fools use for reason."
- Voltaire
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#958200 - 11/08/09 09:02 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: resorts]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/23/09
Posts: 1588
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I decided to read a bit, as it seemed my initial impressions were so wrong. I was focusing on the 8% fine a company who did not chose the public option would have to pay, as that seemed so absurd. I found this in a summary of the bill from Committee on Education and Labor:
****
Ensuring shared responsibility.
The bill will ensure that individuals, employers, and the federal government share responsibility for a quality and affordable health care system.
* Employers can continue offering coverage to workers, and those who choose not to offer coverage contribute a fee of eight percent of payroll
* All individuals will generally be required to get coverage, either through their employer or the exchange, or pay a penalty of 2.5 percent of income, subject to a hardship exemption.
* The federal government will provide affordability credits, available on a sliding scale for low- and middle-income individuals and families to make premiums affordable and reduce cost-sharing.
**** To me, that sounds like a fine for companies that do not provide insurance. Different than fining companies for using private insurance. I don't know. Don't really trust the press or the politicians. Back to read the other responses now, but wanted to get this posted.
_________________________
“I exist as I am, that is enough.” Walt Whitman
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#958220 - 11/08/09 09:19 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: meonlyits]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 3679
Loc: USA
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I decided to read a bit, as it seemed my initial impressions were so wrong. I was focusing on the 8% fine a company who did not chose the public option would have to pay, as that seemed so absurd. I found this in a summary of the bill from Committee on Education and Labor:
****
Ensuring shared responsibility.
The bill will ensure that individuals, employers, and the federal government share responsibility for a quality and affordable health care system.
* Employers can continue offering coverage to workers, and those who choose not to offer coverage contribute a fee of eight percent of payroll
* All individuals will generally be required to get coverage, either through their employer or the exchange, or pay a penalty of 2.5 percent of income, subject to a hardship exemption.
* The federal government will provide affordability credits, available on a sliding scale for low- and middle-income individuals and families to make premiums affordable and reduce cost-sharing.
**** To me, that sounds like a fine for companies that do not provide insurance. Different than fining companies for using private insurance. I don't know. Don't really trust the press or the politicians. Back to read the other responses now, but wanted to get this posted. Then you have NO CHOICE but the Gov't policy Meon. Can't go back to private insurance.
_________________________
I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To.
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#958311 - 11/09/09 12:26 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: tjt2300]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1127
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No. The reason is (say it with me) most of the bills exempted members of Congress, their staff and dependants. You see, they know what garbage they are trying to dump on us. Why do you think, if it is like you say, that they had to exempt themselves and their loved ones? Maybe, (say it again) it is going to destroy private insurances and they had to make sure they were not drinking the same slop they are feeding us. And... you are wrong again! (really, you need to learn to research your claims.) Here it is, in the words of Rep.Emanuel Cleaver: "Are Members of Congress exempt from this legislation? I have to tell you, I have gotten this question a countless number of times. It seems that what most people are concerned with when they ask about this is whether or not Members of Congress are going to enroll in the public option. I currently have insurance from Blue Cross/Blue Shield which was the plan I selected as part of my benefits, just as many of you do who work for companies that provide health care. People who receive health insurance from their employer are not eligible to enter the Exchange under this legislation. However, bill has been changed to say that Members of Congress may enroll in the public option, if they so desire. We are the only group of citizens who currently have employer based insurance but have the opportunity to enroll in the public option.Now the top 10 things the bill will do: 1. REDUCES THE DEFICIT MORE—According to the CBO, the revised bill reduces the deficit by $30 billion over the first 10 years. (The original bill reduced the deficit by $6 billion over the first 10 years). The revised bill also continues to reduce the deficit over the second 10 years. 2. ENDS HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES’ BLANKET EXEMPTION FROM ANTI-TRUST LAWS—In order to open up health insurance markets to real competition, the revised bill ends insurers’ blanket exemption from anti-trust laws, bringing antitrust enforcement to the two most abusive practices of health insurers – price fixing and market allocation. 3. EXTENDS COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 27TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENTS’ INSURANCE—The revised bill requires health plans to allow young people through age 26 to remain on their parents’ policy, at their parents’ choice. 4. CREATES A NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM—The revised bill creates a long-term care insurance program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled. The measure provides a cash benefit to help individuals with community-based services. 5. EXEMPTS SMALL BUSINESSES WITH PAYROLLS BELOW $500,000 FROM EMPLOYER MANDATE—The revised bill exempts a greater number of small businesses from the employer mandate – exempting 86% of all America’s businesses. Specifically, the bill exempts firms with payrolls up to $500,000 (instead of $250,000) from the mandate and provides only a graduated penalty for not offering coverage for firms with payrolls between $500,000 and $750,000 (instead of firms with payrolls between $250,000 and $400,000.) 6. LIMITS THE “HEALTH CARE SURCHARGE” TO MILLIONAIRES—Under the revised bill, only the wealthiest 0.3% of Americans would pay a surcharge on the portion of their income above $500,000 (instead of $280,000) for individuals and $1 million (instead of $350,000) for couples, in order to help make health insurance affordable for middle class families. 7. ADDRESSING GEOGRAPHIC VARIATIONS IN MEDICARE PAYMENTS/MOVING TO MEDICARE PAYMENTS REWARDING QUALITY AND COST-EFFECTIVENESS—The revised bill provides that the Institute of Medicine (IOM), through two studies, will make recommendations on how to fix the current Medicare reimbursement system, including addressing current geographic variations. Under the bill, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) will implement the IOM recommendations on changes to Medicare payment systems unless disapproved by Congress 8. BEGINS CLOSING THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE IMMEDIATELY—The revised bill moves forward the effective date of reducing the donut hole by $500 and instituting a 50% discount for brand-name drugs in the donut hole, from January 1, 2011 to January 1, 2010. It also completes elimination of the donut hole by 2019 (instead of 2024). 9. IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POOL)—To fill the gap before the Exchange is available, the revised bill immediately creates an insurance program with financial assistance for those who have been uninsured for several months or denied a policy because of pre-existing conditions. 10. HHS NEGOTIATION OF drug PRICES—Under the revised bill, the Secretary of HHS is required to negotiate drug prices on behalf of Medicare beneficiaries."
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#958323 - 11/09/09 12:46 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: chuckee]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Earth - Usually
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Saturday, November 7, 2009 1:00 PM The healthcare reform plan being pushed by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and President Barack Obama and passed by the House on Saturday illustrates the Democrats' radical agenda, says former New York Lt. Gov. Betsy McCaughey. In an op-ed article appearing Saturday on The Wall Street Journal's Web site, McCaughey reveals shocking details of the 1,990-page bill. Some of the more alarming aspects of the bill, according to McCaughey: “Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.” “Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.” “Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.” “On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17 percent of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20 percent of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.” “Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20 percent of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.” “Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community 'entities' with no required qualifications except having 'documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers' to 'educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities' aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity.” (mandatory AA, NA or dietary classes similar to DUI requirement) “Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs.”
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#958325 - 11/09/09 12:50 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: Fermentia00]
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Old Hand
Registered: 07/21/04
Posts: 413
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1. How does a bill that costs 1 trillion (which we all know will end up costing 10 trillion) reduce our deficit. 2. I agree the the antitrust exemption was stupid and against our free market society and values, but this could have been done with insurance reform. 3. Again, this could have been done with regular insurance reform, government healthcare is not the option. Does any government run program work? This is great, now I have to go through bureaucracy just to see my doc. 4. Doesn't SSD cover this? 5. I agree, my philosophy is supportive of small business owners. The republicans have seriously swayed from conservative values. Seriously supporting massive corporations over hardworking entrepreneurs is outrageous. 6. A tax increase, thats great. So the harder the work, the more you pay. Remind me to say no to the next raise that I am offered. 7. As i said, this reform to reimbursements just means lets pay doctors less. After they went to school for 10 years, payed a quarter million dollars in tuition, and work hard to save lives, lets make em work for the government for less than the congressman who passed the bill. 8. Agree 9. Again, this could have been accomplished with insurance reform. 10. Why doesn't the government just take over the pharmaceutical manufacturers, bill us for everything and give them away. Honestly, you can limit the amount a pharmaceutical company can markup, but how can you even have the necessary research and development of new drugs to help treat devastating diseases if that company cannot afford it because the government says that have to sell it for the same price it costs? Listen, I was born in the US and I live here because I believe in working hard to support my family. I like the freedoms I enjoy, but not the taxes I pay and the government interfering with my life. When this country was founded, the idea was to have a free society with LIMITED government. Now our government Rules over every sector of american life like Czars(haha). Honestly if you want to work for the government and have them take complete care of you, then honestly I feel sorry for you. BTW, this is not directed at anyone at all, so do not take offense. And no I am not a republican, those idiots have lost my vote. All they can talk about is abortion and disregarding any of the limited government principles which I was lead to understand they support.
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#958328 - 11/09/09 12:59 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: painstaking]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1127
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1. How does a bill that costs 1 trillion (which we all know will end up costing 10 trillion) reduce our deficit. 2. I agree the the antitrust exemption was stupid and against our free market society and values, but this could have been done with insurance reform. 3. Again, this could have been done with regular insurance reform, government healthcare is not the option. Does any government run program work? This is great, now I have to go through bureaucracy just to see my doc. 4. Doesn't SSD cover this? 5. I agree, my philosophy is supportive of small business owners. The republicans have seriously swayed from conservative values. Seriously supporting massive corporations over hardworking entrepreneurs is outrageous. 6. A tax increase, thats great. So the harder the work, the more you pay. Remind me to say no to the next raise that I am offered. 7. As i said, this reform to reimbursements just means lets pay doctors less. After they went to school for 10 years, payed a quarter million dollars in tuition, and work hard to save lives, lets make em work for the government for less than the congressman who passed the bill. 8. Agree 9. Again, this could have been accomplished with insurance reform. 10. Why doesn't the government just take over the pharmaceutical manufacturers, bill us for everything and give them away. Honestly, you can limit the amount a pharmaceutical company can markup, but how can you even have the necessary research and development of new drugs to help treat devastating diseases if that company cannot afford it because the government says that have to sell it for the same price it costs? Listen, I was born in the US and I live here because I believe in working hard to support my family. I like the freedoms I enjoy, but not the taxes I pay and the government interfering with my life. When this country was founded, the idea was to have a free society with LIMITED government. Now our government Rules over every sector of american life like Czars(haha). Honestly if you want to work for the government and have them take complete care of you, then honestly I feel sorry for you. BTW, this is not directed at anyone at all, so do not take offense. And no I am not a republican, those idiots have lost my vote. All they can talk about is abortion and disregarding any of the limited government principles which I was lead to understand they support. Painstaking, with all due respect, where are you getting your information? The government is not taking over healthcare. This bill IS insurance reform. That is it. Seriously. I don't mean any disrespect to you either, I am just trying to understand. Why do you think the government is taking over health care?
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#958338 - 11/09/09 02:15 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: Fermentia00]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1127
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Here is a statement that I believe has much merit and is full of truth. However, in today's insane climate, H.R. 676 (Medicare for All) would have gotten nowhere. We take what we can get. H.R. 3962 is not perfect, but not for the reasons the conservatives would have you believe. Far from it. Please consider: ******* After voting against H.R. 3962 - Affordable Health Care for America Act, Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) today made the following statement: “We have been led to believe that we must make our health care choices only within the current structure of a predatory, for-profit insurance system which makes money not providing health care. We cannot fault the insurance companies for being what they are. But we can fault legislation in which the government incentivizes the perpetuation, indeed the strengthening, of the for-profit health insurance industry, the very source of the problem. When health insurance companies deny care or raise premiums, co-pays and deductibles they are simply trying to make a profit. That is our system. “Clearly, the insurance companies are the problem, not the solution. They are driving up the cost of health care. Because their massive bureaucracy avoids paying bills so effectively, they force hospitals and doctors to hire their own bureaucracy to fight the insurance companies to avoid getting stuck with an unfair share of the bills. The result is that since 1970, the number of physicians has increased by less than 200% while the number of administrators has increased by 3000%. It is no wonder that 31 cents of every health care dollar goes to administrative costs, not toward providing care. Even those with insurance are at risk. The single biggest cause of bankruptcies in the U.S. is health insurance policies that do not cover you when you get sick. “But instead of working toward the elimination of for-profit insurance, H.R. 3962 would put the government in the role of accelerating the privatization of health care. In H.R. 3962, the government is requiring at least 21 million Americans to buy private health insurance from the very industry that causes costs to be so high, which will result in at least $70 billion in new annual revenue, much of which is coming from taxpayers. This inevitably will lead to even more costs, more subsidies, and higher profits for insurance companies — a bailout under a blue cross. “By incurring only a new requirement to cover pre-existing conditions, a weakened public option, and a few other important but limited concessions, the health insurance companies are getting quite a deal. The Center for American Progress’ blog, Think Progress, states “since the President signaled that he is backing away from the public option, health insurance stocks have been on the rise.” Similarly, healthcare stocks rallied when Senator Max Baucus introduced a bill without a public option. Bloomberg reports that Curtis Lane, a prominent health industry investor, predicted a few weeks ago that “money will start flowing in again” to health insurance stocks after passage of the legislation. Investors.com last month reported that pharmacy benefit managers share prices are hitting all-time highs, with the only industry worry that the Administration would reverse its decision not to negotiate Medicare Part D drug prices, leaving in place a Bush Administration policy. “During the debate, when the interests of insurance companies would have been effectively challenged, that challenge was turned back. The “robust public option” which would have offered a modicum of competition to a monopolistic industry was whittled down from an initial potential enrollment of 129 million Americans to 6 million. An amendment which would have protected the rights of states to pursue single-payer health care was stripped from the bill at the request of the Administration. Looking ahead, we cringe at the prospect of even greater favors for insurance companies. “Recent rises in unemployment indicate a widening separation between the finance economy and the real economy. The finance economy considers the health of Wall Street, rising corporate profits, and banks’ hoarding of cash, much of it from taxpayers, as sign of an economic recovery. However in the real economy -- in which most Americans live -- the recession is not over. Rising unemployment, business failures, bankruptcies and foreclosures are still hammering Main Street. “This health care bill continues the redistribution of wealth to Wall Street at the expense of America’s manufacturing and service economies which suffer from costs other countries do not have to bear, especially the cost of health care. America continues to stand out among all industrialized nations for its privatized health care system. As a result, we are less competitive in steel, automotive, aerospace and shipping while other countries subsidize their exports in these areas through socializing the cost of health care. “Notwithstanding the fate of H.R. 3962, America will someday come to recognize the broad social and economic benefits of a not-for-profit, single-payer health care system, which is good for the American people and good for America’s businesses, with of course the notable exceptions being insurance and pharmaceuticals.”
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#958363 - 11/09/09 04:45 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: Fermentia00]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 1096
Loc: In God's Country
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Did you even read what you posted? Let's take a look-
"And... you are wrong again! (really, you need to learn to research your claims.)
Here it is, in the words of Rep.Emanuel Cleaver:
"Are Members of Congress exempt from this legislation?
I have to tell you, I have gotten this question a countless number of times. It seems that what most people are concerned with when they ask about this is whether or not Members of Congress are going to enroll in the public option.
I currently have insurance from Blue Cross/Blue Shield which was the plan I selected as part of my benefits, just as many of you do who work for companies that provide health care.
People who receive health insurance from their employer are not eligible to enter the Exchange under this legislation. However, bill has been changed to say that Members of Congress may enroll in the public option, if they so desire. We are the only group of citizens who currently have employer based insurance but have the opportunity to enroll in the public option."
What a pile of garbage, and you think that answers the question??? It is no wonder people think this isn't a snowjob. What the quote says is Congress CAN enroll in the public option, if THEY want to. They created a special rule so that ONLY they have this option, IF THEY WANT. Big deal! They created an exception to hide the fact that they are EXEMPT! Can't you see what contempt these people have for us? If a member of congress signs up for the public option, it will be a publicity stunt to cover up the real outrage, THAT THEY ARE STLL EXEMPT! Please people, you are being treated like children! That is why they have over two thousands pages. I am taking a pledge right now- I am going to read every painful page in the farce. I am going to do something that most people who voted on this bill did not do, read it. I'll save my favorite parts to share when I'm done.
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“Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.”
James Madison
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#958397 - 11/09/09 09:02 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: tjt2300]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/23/09
Posts: 1588
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Really interesting, all of this. Couple points/questions. 1. What's a single payer health care system? 2. What's the donut hole? 3. I agree w/the point about how the insurance companies do make everything endlessly complicated which in turns makes everything expensive. I had said earlier, perhaps we could just expand Medicare to include those currently uninsured but perhaps that would just be perpetuating a broken system. 4. Some of our politicians view this as the one chance to fix our broken system and so they are more concerned with the end result, even if it takes years. I worry about that too but wish they could come up w/a quicker short term fix in the interim. 5. drug companies do have to charge so much for meds to cover the cost of research for new drugs. Research for new drugs is very important. 6. I have no problem with PA's handling hospice patients. I personally think we should all use PAs more. 7. My dh recently went to the an international conference and at dinner one night they took an informal poll of how folks from several different countries felt about their national healthcare systems and everyone was ok with it. I am not, the idea scares me, but I just thought that was interesting.
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“I exist as I am, that is enough.” Walt Whitman
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#958579 - 11/09/09 03:14 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: meonlyits]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1127
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Really interesting, all of this. Couple points/questions. 1. What's a single payer health care system? 2. What's the donut hole? 3. I agree w/the point about how the insurance companies do make everything endlessly complicated which in turns makes everything expensive. I had said earlier, perhaps we could just expand Medicare to include those currently uninsured but perhaps that would just be perpetuating a broken system. 4. Some of our politicians view this as the one chance to fix our broken system and so they are more concerned with the end result, even if it takes years. I worry about that too but wish they could come up w/a quicker short term fix in the interim. 5. drug companies do have to charge so much for meds to cover the cost of research for new drugs. Research for new drugs is very important. 6. I have no problem with PA's handling hospice patients. I personally think we should all use PAs more. 7. My dh recently went to the an international conference and at dinner one night they took an informal poll of how folks from several different countries felt about their national healthcare systems and everyone was ok with it. I am not, the idea scares me, but I just thought that was interesting. I just woke up, and I am fuzzy, but I will try to answer. 1. What's a single payer health care system? Basically a single payer health care system is where you are taxed a certain amount in lieu of paying premiums to a health insurance company. It takes health insurance out of the mix. Those monies go to a money pool. You then go see a doctor - any doctor. Doctor treats you, and instead of billing the insurance company or you, he bills the money pool. Doctor gets paid his bill. That is the extremely simplified version. It is a version of socialized medicine, except doctors are free to practice as if they are in a capitalist system. 2. What's the donut hole? That is currently in force now. Bush put it in Medicare in the drug policy. You can get a certain dollar amount of meds, but at some point you reach a dollar amount and you are not covered. You continue to pay for meds until you reach a larger dollar amount and then you are covered again. 3. I agree w/the point about how the insurance companies do make everything endlessly complicated which in turns makes everything expensive. I had said earlier, perhaps we could just expand Medicare to include those currently uninsured but perhaps that would just be perpetuating a broken system. HR 676. A bill that is in Congress. Doesn't have a chance in hell. 4. Some of our politicians view this as the one chance to fix our broken system and so they are more concerned with the end result, even if it takes years. I worry about that too but wish they could come up w/a quicker short term fix in the interim. There is. Certain provisions will take effect immediately upon signing. Those include eliminating the power of insurance companies to deny you coverage for pre-exising conditions, or stop covering you if you do get sick. In my previous post where I quoted from the Congressman, I believe I listed all those provisions that will take effect immediately. (forgive me, I am still caffeineless, and am typing from memory.) 5. drug companies do have to charge so much for meds to cover the cost of research for new drugs. Research for new drugs is very important. Yes, it is. Yes, they do. I hope they don't gouge us too much. 6. I have no problem with PA's handling hospice patients. I personally think we should all use PAs more. Yes. 7. My dh recently went to the an international conference and at dinner one night they took an informal poll of how folks from several different countries felt about their national healthcare systems and everyone was ok with it. I am not, the idea scares me, but I just thought that was interesting. I am not able to get health insurance because of pre-existing conditions. I am 55, pretty healthy, I hike 2 miles a day, I am not overweight, I do not smoke or drink. I have a few debilitating conditions though, severe TMJ and severe joint issues in my arms. I desperately need surgeries on my wrists or I am going to permanently lose use of my hands. I cannot afford this. I am not poor enough to qualify for govt assistance, and I am not rich enough to pay for it myself. I cannot work in the job I am highly trained, and in which I earned a good living, because I can no longer hold my camera. I am disabled. I need help. This bill, the one that passed the House, isn't perfect, but it will help people like me. Okay, I hope I answered your questions, and I am going to go have breakfast now without even proofreading this, so forgive me for bad grammar or typos. 
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#958929 - 11/09/09 11:26 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: meonlyits]
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Veteran
Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 639
Loc: Up the Creek
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I've gone so far as to checkout immigration to Canada and I was dead serious. http://www.canada-immigration.ca/assessment.html(not sure if this is the official government site) They are not so welcoming as one would think. They go by a point system based on age, how much money do you have, etc. Their official website is pretty honest, in that they don't want old, sick or poor people coming in to use their healthcare system. I should have stayed in Nova Scotia back in '72. One of the prettiest places I have ever seen. On another subject-- This House bill has zero chance of passing the Senate, so it's much talk about nothing. The Democrats promised much more and failed back in '93. They will fail to deliver this time also.
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#958945 - 11/09/09 11:54 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: NiceGuy]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1127
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I've gone so far as to checkout immigration to Canada and I was dead serious. http://www.canada-immigration.ca/assessment.html(not sure if this is the official government site) They are not so welcoming as one would think. They go by a point system based on age, how much money do you have, etc. Their official website is pretty honest, in that they don't want old, sick or poor people coming in to use their healthcare system. I should have stayed in Nova Scotia back in '72. One of the prettiest places I have ever seen. On another subject-- This House bill has zero chance of passing the Senate, so it's much talk about nothing. The Democrats promised much more and failed back in '93. They will fail to deliver this time also. I looked into France. Medical tourism. As for passing: The insurance industry has bought many senators, right and left, and has spent an estimated 1.4 million PER DAY to defeat this reform bill. The stooges of the insurance industry and a handful of right wing loons have spread lies wide and thick. Gullible people are buying the bulls*it. The bills have been compromised and watered down and compromised some more - Corporations and Money usually win out. You are probably right. It is pathetic. People, real people, don't matter much in corporate America.
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#958987 - 11/10/09 12:48 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: Stacy]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1127
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Gov't has never run ANYTHING efficiently.
Oh my. Government can't do anything right. Don't EVER say you honor and support our military. The military (even including private, outsourced companies like Blackwater) are all paid and supplied by the Federal government. Don't EVER call 911 for a medical, fire or police emergency. Emergency services are largely provided for by public servants using government-provided equipment and training. Don't EVER drive on a federal or state or local highway. You can only drive on roads built and maintained by private companies. You'll really have to do this as you will not have a driver's license which is a product of a government agency. Don't EVER buy any food that passed an FDA inspection. You have to grow your own fruits and vegetables and raise your own cattle, pigs, chickens, etc. Same goes for any medications. Don't EVER visit a National, State, or Local park and especially don't participate in any activities there (fishing, hunting, camping, hiking, etc. that would require further expenditures for licenses.) Don't EVER be in a position you would need a public defender. They are paid for via public dollars. Don't EVER expect or ask for the prosecution against someone who did you harm, directly or indirectly. The judicial system, you see, is a government-run agency paid for by our tax dollars and other fees. Don't EVER visit a public library and use the resources there as tax dollars bought those books, PCs, etc. Don't EVER put your children in public schools (elementary, high school, or college). The elementary and high schools are free via tax dollars. Teachers are paid via tax dollars. Don't EVER apply for Medicaid if you become disabled or indigent and need assistance such as food stamps, medical care, utility bill assistance or job training. After all, you don't want other Americans who have no insurance to have it paid for via tax dollars, why should you get to take part in that system? Don't EVER accept Medicare (above the amount you contributed plus an appropriate amount of interest) after you retire and can longer find any type of private health insurance that will accept your tired old EXPENSIVE to care for body. Don't EVER accept any Social Security payment (same deal as with Medicare) after you no longer work or a spouse has died. Live off of your private investments or the charity of friends and family. Don't EVER apply for a small business loan from any government agency. Where do you think that money would come from anyway? Don't EVER ask the government for help in getting child support payments from a deadbeat spouse. Don't EVER apply for Unemployment if you should happen to lose your job. Don't EVER mail a letter via the USPS and contact every single entity that would otherwise use the USPS for mailing you items to have them sent via UPS, FEDEX, or electronic delivery. Don't EVER visit a museum that was built or is maintained or operated by any government agency. Don't EVER use the Internet. The internet was primarily developed by the US Federal government (DOD, DARPA, etc.)
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#958994 - 11/10/09 12:54 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: painstaking]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5820
Loc: The Steve Doocy Fan Club
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You write as if the Private Insurers run "efficent" programs when, in fact, 30% of Insurance cost is eaten up by administrative issues; Doctors also have the additional financial burden of hiring specialists to deal with confusing paperwork associated with dealing with so many different entities each of which has a different billing system; in fact, one Doctor's office I heard about had 47 Doctors, but 67 Billing specialists...the cost of working through all that paperwork and inefficency is born by those of us who are paying increasingly higher premiums for diminishing service as Doctors order needless tests to cover expenses, and the big Companies pad their own profits by not taking on risk (pre-existing conditions), and cutting sicker patients ASAP; the upshot is, if you are relatively healthy, then the Insurers want you as a customer, if you get sick, you are frequently SOL. Something has to be done, heavy regulation, actual competitian, and price caps could fix the issues possibly, but that is never going to happen, The big Insurers have gotten too rich working the flawed system we are currently stuck with, and the next best solution is to have a Governmental agency that attempts to level the playing field. And, despite the ineffiencies, ask most Americans if they want Medicare to continue, and they emphatically say yes. How can a private insurer compete with a government program? It is financed by taxpayers. That is the point. What this bill accomplishes is a stepping stone to socialized medicine.
As for them negotiating rates. Medicare does not negotiate, they dictate. And reimbursements from medicare are some of the lowest in the nation. BCBS does seem to have some issues in that arena too, but thats why many docs and hospitals have stopped excepting them.
I wrote it earlier, that they are attempting to cut medicare reimbursements by 22%. And that they are trying to tie universal healthcare reimbursements to medicare. Logically you can see what this means.
When it comes to health insurers, they do negotiate rates, but they do it on the local going rate. Medicare on the other hand requires exorbitant amounts of paperwork with claims often outright denied, and when they are approved, the payments are often less than the cost to the doctor to actually do the test or injections etc.
But disregard all of the above and consider this: With the government running healthcare, do you think it will be efficient or do you think in the end, the taxpayers will end up picking up the bill for the insane bureaucracy? Please enlighten me on one well run government agency.
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"Prejudices are what fools use for reason."
- Voltaire
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#959019 - 11/10/09 01:20 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: musician7]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 3679
Loc: USA
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Stacy,
I was talking about schools and libraries and parks and Medicare and Medicaid and all the other things in Fermentias post.
I am not saying things always run smoothly. Calling a woman an ingrate is mean. That is why I usually don't post here.
I think we should discuss issues without name calling.
Any way I am heading for bed. I hope you all have a wonderful evening and a good nights sleep.
Oh Fermentia didn't mean anything by ingrate to me. Fermentia and I have an understanding, we don't agree but we like to debate with each other. We really don't have any issues Musician, but I appreciate you taking up for me. Fermentia and I actually PM. Well those things too in the post Musician, many of those are run by local Gov'ts too. Libraries, local, Police Depts, 911, etc, local. The employees can be great and do a good job, it's the Politicians and the budgets that are the issue for me, when your budget is crazy and still not enough, that's the problem.
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I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To.
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#959327 - 11/10/09 05:46 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: Stacy]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 3679
Loc: USA
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I am a tax payer also, and I happen to disagree that giving a child who has become pregnant through rape or incest, or saving a woman's life by terminating a dangerous pregnancy, is "stupid crap." As important as YOUR tax dollars are to YOU Stacy, you are not Queen of America, and you alone do not make public policy...I would say that the majority of Americans agree with me that there are mitigating circumstances where an abortion is a sad, but necessary medical procedure. That's not what I called "stupid crap" at all. So, I don't have the right to NOT support what I don't agree with? What makes you so sure I haven't been faced with any of the issues in question myself or with my family? You aren't sure about that, because I have been faced with that issue with my family and myself. We all have the right to feel how we feel about issues and I for one do NOT want my taxes to go to ANY abortion. Sorry, that's my feeling and I have that right to feel that way. The sad thing is, I do NOT have the right to not have my money taken and put toward that. One of the top of the list of "stupid crap" for me is the NEA.
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I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To.
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#959551 - 11/10/09 11:11 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: Stacy]
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Old Hand
Registered: 07/21/04
Posts: 413
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Well said stacy, I just hope Americans feel the same way. And if that is what it takes to get it burnt, then I agree. But I will be dismayed if we do not get some real reform that can actually do some good. Everyone knows what I mean. Why not just pass a bill that makes the insurance companies be honest and stop all the problems that people complain about now. And at the same time, the democrats can trim down the so called medicare fraud that has been going on for years but only now being put in the forefront. Get rid of the bureaucracy, trim medicare, medicaid, and SSA.
BTW, what percentage of the uninsured are those that are only inbetween jobs and regain insurance one month later? Maybe add a provision that allows that employee insurance to last for a few months. Secondly, what percentage of those uninsured are illegals? The actual percentage of uninsured citizens for long periods is probably much lower than it is advertised to be. And finally can someone explain to me why these actual uninsured cannot qualify for SSA, medicare, or medicaid?
People, please don't let these demagogues trick you into following their power seeking plans by using rigged facts and stats.
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#959680 - 11/11/09 04:25 AM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: Stacy]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1127
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I hate that for you, I really do. One thing a lot of our docs do here is even offer a discount for people that don't have insurance and all docs should do that, IMO.
The prices I quoted above for my specialist? That IS the discount. Of course I know about the discounts. I have been operating insuranceless in the system for over 4 years. Before that, I had insurance, government insurance, as a college professor. Great coverage. I loved it. I was in the UC system, and when the funds for teachers were cut, I was one of the victims. I went back to freelancing, but I lost my insurance. I entered the merry-go-round of apply and deny with each of the major and most of the minor ins. companies. We all know that if an insurance reform bill does not pass, then NO reform bill will pass in MY lifetime. Maybe not yours. And a few of you will end up where I am. So, if I don't have a lot of patience for the asinine blathering that passes for debate... well. Screw it. A civilized country takes care of its citizens. A civilized country doesn't let honest, taxpaying citizens fall through the cracks and lose everything just because they got sick. And the soulless cretins who manufacture the lies and deceit to lead a sheeplike populace to believe lies about government takeover of healthcare and freaking death panels and socialized medicine and crap like that deserve their own circle of hell. Once again, say it with me, we are the ONLY civilized western country that kicks its sick to the curb and lets them die. This country should be ashamed.
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#960113 - 11/11/09 05:36 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: tigersmom]
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Old Hand
Registered: 07/21/04
Posts: 413
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Look social security disability cannot disqualify you because of your income level. It is only based on your disability. That is fact. So you own your own house and everything, explain to my why you cannot get insurance? Is it due to pre-existing conditions? Well then, insurance reform would be perfect for you. BUT NOT GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE!
@tiger, this discussion is totally unrelated to the war. I am a conservative and not a republican. I disagreed with the Iraq war, but agree with the Afghan War. We abandoned them in the past and that is what led them to the predicament today. They attacked us and harbored terrorists. They have asked us to stay and help them, and it is not an elective war.
But that is offtopic and for another time.
No one will call me unselfish and uncaring, now that is Dirty Politics! I donate my time and my money. I do my best in my community to help others. I live as a true southerner, and help others in need. One is not related to the other. The conservative policy is to help these people get jobs, the democrat policy is to give them money at the expense of others. Both parties aims are the same in the end, they only differ in the pathway, and to each their own, but I think the right way is the right way.
On to the medicaid issue, docs do not accept it for one reason! It is because they barely pay, they often require preauthorizations for everything, they often limit the amount of care you can get etc. This is the example of government run healthcare, is this what you want? And this is the exact reason I don't want universal healthcare.
And ferment, I already told you that I do not believe in all that stupid politicking, death panels etc. Why can you not understand this? I am not a demagogue, I just believe in my stance wholeheartedly as you. I think they should reform medicaid and expand to those in need. I think they should reform medicare and trim it. I think they should make sure SSD is made more available and stop all the shameless denials. But I do not believe in universal healthcare. I do not believe in a government run healthcare for otherwise financially healthy americans. I do not agree in financing illegal aliens who violated our laws. And I do not agree with all the name calling, politicking, and dishonest debate. This debate is not aimed at anyone personally, but I understand the effects of what we are debating affect some here. I sympathize with your situation and think there might be a way we can help you. But that would be something I would want to do in PM's.
Anyway, they do not have the votes in the senate right now, so I doubt this bill will ever be passed anyway, quite rightfully. I just hope we do get some other reform soon. Because both doctors and patients are hurting without it and many of us here too.
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#960124 - 11/11/09 05:49 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: painstaking]
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Threadhead
Registered: 11/18/06
Posts: 791
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Have you ever tried to get S/S Disability. Not easy my man. And yes, it could keep you from getting S/S and then your medicare. On the APP. It does ask you how much money you have. Do you own your home. I have been there and have been collecting S/S Disability and my medicare for 10 years. ABTW, if you are not 62 you well have to wait a 2 year waiting period before you can have your Medicare. Been there done that. I had to wait the 2 years. So even if the poster was to get on S/S today , it would take 2 years before any medicare would kick in. Get your facts, Call S/S and medicare both and ASK THEM!! c One other thing, you are definitely wrong!! out of my ten years I have only had to get one per atho. That was for GWB grate Medicare part d plan, medication for one drug
Edited by chuckee (11/11/09 05:55 PM)
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#960233 - 11/11/09 08:57 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: painstaking]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5820
Loc: The Steve Doocy Fan Club
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I disagreed with the Iraq war, but agree with the Afghan War. We abandoned them in the past and that is what led them to the predicament today. They attacked us and harbored terrorists. They have asked us to stay and help them, and it is not an elective war.
I also agreed with going into Afghanistan...it is Iraq that I am referring to as an elective War. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11...I repeat, nothing, nada. Iraq will forever be known as Bush's folly, and the blood of over 4,000 Americans, and untold Iraqi's stains his hands. You know what, I'd appreciate the current Conservative hyper-sensitivity to the National Debt if it had been expressed during the Reagan era (he left us 1 Trillion in debt when he left Office), and during the recent Bush era where the Republicans showed themselves to be profligate spenders on a grand scale. I don't recall many Conservatives squawking about out of control spending then, but of course, Reagan (although he had to back-track later), and Bush pushed through tax cuts which basically bought silence from at least some of the people who now claim to be "fiscal Conservatives" and object (loudly) to the sort of spending that the current President wants to do on programs like Healthcare reform that actually will help millions of Americans.
_________________________
"Prejudices are what fools use for reason."
- Voltaire
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#960336 - 11/11/09 11:30 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: tigersmom]
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Old Hand
Registered: 07/21/04
Posts: 413
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Tigers, I actually did hear many many conservatives yelling at the top of their lungs about the fiscal conservative issue during his presidency and after. If you notice, conservatives did not show up in polls for the big congressional election per polls. But who you might not have heard from is the republicans. There is a difference between being part of a party and a political philosophy. I am conservative and think the republicans have lost all their values. Take Ron Paul for example, he is a libertarian, and a true conservative. I believe in small government and less taxes. And Ronald Reagan both won the Cold War, got us out of a huge depression, and on his first day the Iran hostages were released because he threatened action. While there may have been some drawbacks in his policies, he did accomplish alot and is independently ranked as one of the best presidents in history (cannot remember source, but I will find it). He was kind and spoke the truth. Go and listen to some of his speeches he gave, he was both personable, honest and conservative. There is such thing as compassionate conservatism and their is a difference between republicans and conservatives. On SSD, my facts are straight. You can get Social Security Disability at any age of your life. It will provide both supplemental income and health insurance. You just have to prove your disability. As of now, it often requires an attorney because they try to deny you. But that is why I mentioned earlier that need to reform it to be more inclusive and less bureacratic. The health insurance is available to anybody with disability. It is only the supplemental income which is based on financial need. They are not just going to hand out free money if you are rich. But you are covered by insurance which is what we are debating here. http://www.ssa.gov/disability/Now if you cannot qualify for disability even with a lawyer, and you are not poor with no income, then you should be able to afford health insurance. And that is where the insurance reform comes into play. Regulations would force them to accept pre-existing conditions in patients whose income cannot support outrageous policies. This can be done in insurance reform, BUT NOT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.
Edited by painstaking (11/11/09 11:35 PM)
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#960590 - 11/12/09 12:00 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: painstaking]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5820
Loc: The Steve Doocy Fan Club
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Take Ron Paul for example, he is a libertarian, and a true conservative.
I believe in small government and less taxes. And Ronald Reagan both won the Cold War, got us out of a huge depression, and on his first day the Iran hostages were released because he threatened action. While there may have been some drawbacks in his policies, he did accomplish alot and is independently ranked as one of the best presidents in history (cannot remember source, but I will find it). He was kind and spoke the truth. Go and listen to some of his speeches he gave, he was both personable, honest and conservative.
I actually admire Ron Paul, although Libetarianism is a bit too Darwinian for me, but Paul doesn't come off as a hypocrite at least; if the Libertarians could find a dynamic, young Ron Paul he might get some traction in an election. Now for the rest of your statement, oh boy; I actually was an adult during Reagan's Presidency, and I don't look at it through the rose-colored glasses that you do. First for some facts: the last time we had unemployment numbers this bad was in 1983...that is 3 years into Reagan's first term, further, Reagan was able to play with interest rates because they were so high at the time (which is not the case now), and, although Reagan did lower income taxes, he also had to raise them later because he could not fund his Military ambitions (the boon-doggle that was "Star Wars" for one thing.) As for his "truth" telling, you forget the whole Iran-Contra episode a little too easily...if a Democrat had side stepped Congress in an attempt to overthrow a government there would have been hell to pay. Now the Hostages were released when Reagan came into office because the Iranians wanted to insult Carter...it is what it is. As far as the Cold War ending, there is a lot more history to the event than you are suggesting; while Reagan played his part by maintaining friendly relations with Gorbachev, I would also credit the Solidarity Movement in Poland for throwing the proverbial first stone at the iron curtain, the Pope played his part, but it was ultimately Gorbachev who refused to come to the aid of the East German Government when it's citizens started streaming across the borders...I will say that the supporting role that Reagan played int the collapse of the Iron Curtain involved diplomacy and NOT military action. I also give kudos to Mr Reagan for not attacking Lebanon when the Marine Barracks were bombed...some would say that he "cut and run," but I say that he was being prudent, and avoided more needless violence.
_________________________
"Prejudices are what fools use for reason."
- Voltaire
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#960645 - 11/12/09 01:49 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: tigersmom]
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Threadhead
Registered: 11/18/06
Posts: 791
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This is the last time I well post about this. I have went straight to the Medicare Disability Rules. Obviously you don't believe me. I don't understand, you would think , you would ask a person that has been on s/s disability and Medicare for 10 years and knows about all the Rules. But you guys know better. So have had it. But this did come straight from the disability medicare hand book , like it or not. The eligibility guidelines for individuals under age 65 include: You are receiving Social Security or benefits from the Railroad Retirement Board due to a disability for 24 months or more. You are going for dialysis treatments or need a kidney transplant. I don't know what 24 months means to you. Book for me , when I got my medicare it meant 24 months, or if you like 730 days. That's all I have to say. I am sure you know much more them me. Oh , if any of you would like, I can supply a copy of the hand book with all the Rules. C
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#960689 - 11/12/09 03:26 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: Stacy]
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Threadhead
Registered: 11/18/06
Posts: 791
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Ok Stacy . That all came from the gov. not me. Maybe, they have there S/S Payments in that time , I hand my s/s disability in 30 days. But as you can see , I did not write it or make the Rules , it takes 24 months to get the medicare started. Now there is a thing call medicaid that's not medicare and if you are in the right poverty index you could qualify. Here it is Medicaid is available only to certain low-income individuals and families who fit into an eligibility group that is recognized by federal and state law. Medicaid does not pay money to you; instead, it sends payments directly to your health care providers. Depending on your state's Rules, you may also be asked to pay a small part of the cost (co-payment) for some medical services. There is something different for children Thur Medicaid. But you can find it for your self. And , I am doing this for some one that could use the information , I am not doing this for you. I really don't care about you Stacy. But , I think God him self could look you in the face , and say the same thing , and you would call him a liar. But , I must not have been paying attention , you are GOD ARNT YOU STACY!!.
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#960705 - 11/12/09 03:46 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: meonlyits]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1127
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Social security disability takes years to be approved. It is pretty much understood that one gets turned down the first time, and it is only through appeals that one gets approved.
Ferm, do you truly own your house, or does the bank own some/most of it?
If I understand it correctly, the issue is that as you are no longer working, private insurance is too expensive, and also, you have been turned down for pre-existing conditions that are no longer an issue.
Was COBRA an option for you at all?
Don't worry, I don't mind, in this case. I own my house, paid off. I worked hard for that. I am no longer working as an art professor because funds were cut, and no longer working as a photographer (my main lifetime career), because my wrists will not allow me to hold my camera for any period of time. I currently work at a part time job that my physical condition allows. The job market is tough, especially for an older, physically handicapped person. Private insurance is not an option for me because of pre-existing conditions. I have been rejected by every major and minor company to which I have applied. I used up my COBRA coverage over 2 years ago. The only option available to me is the High Risk option of the state of California (set up to service patients who need ongoing, very expensive care, such as chemotherapy or AIDS treatments, etc.) This is approximately $1000 a month with a $5000 deductible. This option is out of my price range. Although, my out of pocket costs are rising, and nearing that level, that coverage would bankrupt me. Update on my doctor visit yesterday: Final cash cost: $1400. Plus, the news was not good, and I need to go to UCLA for further testing - cost to be determined but the doc estimated it to be in the $300 - $800 range. Sigh. Then I go back to the doc in two weeks: cost $165. My doc is a good one, works with me every step of the way. Oh, did I mention he agrees with me 100% about the health reform bill? Every single one of my doctors do, they are on the front lines, and they look into the eyes of the casualties.
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#960729 - 11/12/09 04:05 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: Stacy]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1127
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Something I was wondering after reading this, I'm sure you've thought about it, but just wanted to throw it out there....
With your experience, is there some type of consulting, editor or even other work in the art field that is more of a "desk" type job, rather than a "hands on" as in working with your hands type that might be available?
I also know that Blue Cross is different in each state, as far as how good it is. In my state it is a good insurance and they have a new individual policy.
It does have pre-existing waiting periods, but they still don't turn down people that often, they premiums are very well priced also. As for the first suggestion, that is what I am doing. I also take little jobs on the side on weekends and in my spare time. I am a busy little bee. I am a survivor. Blue Cross? I have three rejection letters from them, one a year. I am going to take all my rejection letters and wallpaper my bathroom with them. The main thing I am worried about? Even with my disabilities, I am a healthy little [censored]]. I am going to live to be almost 90, if my family history is any indication. I CAN'T AFFORD THAT ANYMORE. My retirement savings has gone to pay for doctors. I am going to have to sell my house or take out serious loans on it, and when that is gone, I am in the wind. Social Security isn't going to be sufficient, and Medicare is 10 years away. (those commie socialized programs! smirk)
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#960886 - 11/12/09 06:39 PM
Re: House passes Healthcare Reform
[Re: meonlyits]
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Stranger
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 13
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I would gladly pay 2.5% of our family income to help provide health care to others. Meon - nothing is stopping you from doing that now. Donate to your local hospital or charity that provides health care for people without insurance. The point isn't that you would be happy to help, the point is that the government is already swallowing up enough of my income to fund things that I don't agree with. If there was a check box on the tax form and you could say "Use my tax money to build highways but not to fund arms for other countries", I would feel a lot better about the entire process. I don't know how it is where you are at but I'm in California and we have 10% sales tax plus property tax and state and federal income tax, plus FICA. Businesses are leaving the state. This administration has made such a royal mess of things that I have HALF of the income that I made last year because people are afraid to spend money. It seems to me that the keys to cleaning up the health insurance problem are very simple: 1. fix the economy (jobs = money and benefits ergo fewer people without insurance) 2. deport illegals (not here legally -> leave and come in the right way and we can process you and you can pay get a regular job with money and benefits) 3. open competition to health insurance companies (more competition = better prices for consumers) and 4. tort reform Mass. has had public insurance and they are going bankrupt. There is no profit motive in government so the waste factor is always going to be higher. Additionally, do you want the same entity that determines your health benefits to have access to your tax records? If we keep going down this path, at some point it will make sense for a bureaucrat to see that Joe at 50 years old is paying $2000 a year in taxes so he doesn't get the surgery that Marge does because Marge is only 30 and is paying $10,000 a year in taxes. In the final analysis, however, the economy is truly screwed up and we have young men in Iraq and Afghanistan and we are being threatened by really crazy men in N. Korea, Iran and Venezuela so there are plenty of problems that need attention before health insurance. This is obviously another power/money grab by the Federal government. And Happy Birthday, Meon
Edited by waterbaby (11/12/09 06:40 PM)
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You are a smartass, lol
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