Quick question:::::
If the government can't oversee the swine flu and the control of the vaccines as promised, what makes anyone think they can run healthcare?

I brought my son to the doctor last week because of a very high fever, 103.8. The doctor confirmed he had H1N1 and was prescribed Tamiflu. I asked the doctor if she had been vaccinated, she rolled her eyes and said NO. She said, what I think we've all heard: The vaccine is for people who have compromised health issues, very young & elderly.

It's difficult to blame the government for a shortage of a vaccine, when it's use is specifically spelled out.

Hey, Layla, good to see you posting.

It's amazing how this H1N1 thing is suddenly a government conspiracy when its vaccine's manufacture and distribution is solely in the hands of its Pharmaceutical owner.

Odd, how spin spins, no?

"It's difficult to blame the government for a shortage of a vaccine, when it's use is specifically spelled out. "

What? It is the shortage that caused the limitations of who receives it! If they had enough, we could all get it. You have confused me and made my migraine worse.

Try again. The government is not taking over healthcare.

The bills that are before Congress are about health insurance industry reform. Say that again. HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY REFORM. Look it up.

You have been misinformed.

Exactly.

Misinformed. I dont think so. This isnt about reform. My neighbor as I said earlier is a senator and has a copy of the bill. Go online and read it. When they start selling insurance thru a 3rd party the goal is to go to a govt only run healthcare. Please read it first before you tell me I am misinformed. We were at the senators house the other night after playing a game of golf. He told us some stuff that concerned him, and because of its length wording is hard to understand and there is some clauses in the bill that will suprise you. I believe the govt has it posted on one of the websites. Check it out. Even Nancy pelosi said there goal is to run the insurance thru a govt program.

Reform is torte reform to stop the useless lawsuits against doctors where the malpractice insurance premiums wont kill them. Also being able to purchase insurance across state lines. Reform is what it is. This is not reform. Please read the bill which might take a while or glance thru it please and see what I mean. Its in there in black and white.

The Democrats are not listening to the majority of the American people. They no longer represent but rule. Their arrogrance, their unabated corruption, their increasing of the deficit, the increasing of insurance premiums, the decreasing of quality care, their covering of illegal immigrants, their corrupt cap tax ideology, their marriage to Goldman Sachs, GE, and Soros all spell ruin. If 2010 doesn't change our countries course, I feel it will lead to real revolt.

Real reform of our health care system is needed. We must help those who want health insurance but cannot afford it. We must expand access to health care in rural America. We must fix our medical malpractice laws so that doctors can focus on saving patients rather than paying lawyers. And we must expand our investments in preventative care. However, that doesn't mean we should throw out the car because it has a soft tire. This country still has the best doctors, the best treatments, the best researches, and the best hospitals in the world. Improvements need to be made, but not at the cost of potentially destroying our current health care system, saddling our children and grandchildren with trillions of dollars of debt, decreasing our standard of care, and burdening American families and small businesses with $729.5 billion in new taxes.

The democrats call this SPREADING THE WEALTH. Which is something we need to not get in the habit of

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/21/AR2009112102272_pf.html

How is that for spreading the wealth?
The Louisiana Purchase. Politics as usual.


How is that "Hope and Change" working out?

Nelson getting Reid to jettison a provision stripping health insurers of their antitrust exemption, and Landrieu pulling the plug on the public option is only the beginning.

By the time the sharks are finished, there won't be any hope for a person like me.

I am going to be bankrupt in the next couple of years. Broke, homeless and crippled. What a country, eh?

All you people who get to go to doctors whenever you have a freaking hangnail can go to hell.

We can look at the data below and see why Americans can't afford health care and where our health care dollars are going. It definitely isn't going to paying for the average American's medical bills.

United Health Group
CEO: William W McGuire
2005: 124.8 mil
5-year: 342 mil

Forest Labs
CEO: Howard Solomon
2005: 92.1 mil
5-year: 295 mil

Caremark Rx
CEO: Edwin M Crawford
2005: 77.9 mil
5-year: 93.6 mil

Abbott Lab
CEO: Miles White
2005: 26.2 mil
5-year: 25.8 mil

Aetna
CEO: John Rowe
2005: 22.1 mil
5-year:57.8 mil

Amgen
CEO: Kevin Sharer
2005:5.7 mil
5-year:59.5 mil

Bectin-Dickinson
CEO: Edwin Ludwig
2005: 10 mil
5-year:18 mil

Boston Scientific
CEO:
2005:38.1 mil
5-year:45 mil

Cardinal Health
CEO: James Tobin
2005:1.1 mil
5-year:33.5 mil

Cigna
CEO: H. Edward Hanway
2005:13.3 mil
5-year:62.8 mil

Genzyme
CEO: Henri Termeer
2005: 19 mil
5-year:60.7 mil

Humana
CEO: Michael McAllister
2005:2.3 mil
5-year:12.9 mil

Johnson & Johnson
CEO: William Weldon
2005:6.1 mil
5-year:19.7 mil

Laboratory Corp America
CEO: Thomas MacMahon
2005 :7.9 mil
5-year:41.8 mil

Eli Lilly
CEO: Sidney Taurel
2005 :7.2 mil
5-year:37.9 mil

McKesson
CEO: John Hammergen
2005: 13.4 mil
5-year:31.2 mil

Medtronic
CEO: Arthur Collins
2005: 4.7 mil
5-year:39 mil

Merck Raymond Gilmartin
CEO:
2005: 37.8 mil
5-year:49.6 mil

PacifiCare Health
CEO: Howard Phanstiel
2005: 3.4 mil
5-year: 8.5 mil

Pfizer
CEO: Henry McKinnell
2005: 14 mil
5-year: 74 mil

Well Choice
CEO: Michael Stocker
2005: 3.2 mil
5-year: 10.7 mil

WellPoint
CEO: Larry Glasscock
2005: 23 mil
5-year: 46.8 mil

Wyeth
CEO: Robert Essner
2005:6.5 mil
5-year: 28.9 mil

TOTAL 2005: 559.8 mil

TOTAL 5-Year: 14.9 billion

Source: Forbes Online

We could insure the uninsured in this country with the money these CEO's receive in compensation. But remember how many people are denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions and how many claims are denied for various reasons.

Harvard researchers published in the American Journal of Public Health a study which reveals roughly 45,000 American adults die every year because they are not covered by health insurance. President Barack Obama stated in a speech, "One in three adults who don't have health insurance live one accident away from bankruptcy."

So that is why I say start with reform. There is tons we could do again without going into debt doing this. Or taxing everyone more because of what they make. Remember I am sure the public option will not pass. Even democrats are uncertain about this. Also this bill even states if the govt does have the so called public option it will still only help half of who doesnt have insurance. That to me even doesnt work. Cover some but not all. Wrong answer congress. How about lets sit down and do this correctly and get some reform.

It looks like the Public Option is dead and it took $300M to buy off Landrieu. Huey Long must be smiling.

Tragedy or farce?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704888404574550012759377786.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Figured that. I just worry. My business is small but successful. I try to keep my employees rolling while the economy is bad. I had to not even pay myself for 4 months till things started getting a little better. But this will put way to much demand on everyone

Those in the upper tax brackets have paid historically low tax rates over the last 8 years, So pardon me if I don't cry if their tax rate gets bumped up slightly to pay for a worthy project. As for getting reform "right" If the Democrats don't get it done now, it won't get done in our lifetime (the Republicans had 8 years to do something, and what they did was pass an unfunded Medicare part D prescription drug plan)...it is also pre-mature to count out the "public option."

And no action at all will put too much demand on me, rich man.

What part of "I will be bankrupt and homeless within two years" did you not understand?

Will you?

You might think they are low but they arent in my company. I pay out plenty in taxes both federally and state. However what saves me is Virginia does have a lower rate then some other states. Then paying workmens comp,etc. Then more taxes...No thankyou. Even the richest 2 percent shouldnt be taxed more than they already are. That is why some are moving money to other countries. Health care is worthy and I totally agree but it can be done without this tax hike. But I am sorry but I still believe one should not have to pay for another and that is kinda what is going to be going on. Not hand to hand payments, but bigger tax hikes. I just care alot about my employees and always try to grow and hire to provide them a good job. And yes I provide health care but the bill even says the ones holding health care private coverage like blue cross blue shield,etc could see a rate hike to pay for this. That again is screwing the middle class.Whether the employer pays the difference or the employee just so this bill can be passed in my opinion is nonsense. More tax hikes in this economy with unemployment at 10.2 percent and climbing is suicide. More tax hikes for my business might have such an impact that i might have to lay 1 or 2 off. I dont want this to happen to my employees for the good of this govt healthcare plan. Just cant support it like its written.

I DO SUPPORT REFORM IF U READ BUT NOT THE TAX HIKES TO DO IT

if the economy keeps going like it is and more taxes are imposed. YES i can see where I could be to in the future if we dont do something to get this economy spinning again

I, like you, was a small business owner. Very small, since I was a freelance photographer. Successful. You have seen my images, I guarantee you.
I am middle class, I own a home, I once had sufficient savings. I paid my taxes.

One accident away, my friend. You are one accident away from my situation. There is no safety net for you.

No safety net at all. Not until you are destitute.

You talk and talk but you don't KNOW.

How did you exist before Bush lowered taxes? BTW, the tax rate before the Bush Tax Cut were the lowest taxes in American History...

I was in the military then. Got out and started my business. I know times are tuff for everyone and if I had billions of dollars I would be willing to help. I am very good to the employees I have though. Last year was the first year I had to cut out christmas bonuses and it made me feel like a jerk for doing it. this year I am taking a pay cut to make sure they get paid. Its what I chose to do rather than shut the doors because I have it where its working and I am now making a little. But last year was the worst. I just fear the government is taking a wrong turn. I have friends daily shutting their doors on businesses and losing their jobs and its sad. The small businesses is what started enterprise in america. Its not easy but is rewarding. I just dont think this will work. I cant say who in my family is but she is a ob/gyn. She told me she is very afraid of this plan. She wants reform as I do but she knows alot of what is in the bill and she agrees it will bankrupt this country and people will get care but it will not be as good. She is also afraid if this happens some will be waiting forever to get procedures they could have had in a few months might take a year or more. its a catch 22 situtation. You cant please everyone and no matter what happens whether its a tax hike or whatever, I will be prepared and will make do. If I was insured this health care would help EVERYONE and not a few and would provide better health care and no cuts for seniors like my parents, I would pay more taxes. But no one can prove this and nothing in the bill indicates it either. therefore I will continue to not be a supporter. If it proves me wrong that would be wonderful. But 1990 pages in this bill has alot of hidden stuff that even attorneys admit they are having a hard time figuring out. I am all for the HIKE on businesses if it were to work. I Just have my doubts like most other Americans

Funny that you pick THIS issue to cry about taxes, but you don't mind the enormous taxes on other things.

Why just this?

Look at the federal budget and where the taxes go.


Yet, only this.

You would rather see fellow Americans go down in flames?

In a recent Associated Press poll, 57% of those surveyed favored taxing people who earn more than $250,000 a year to pay for the healthcare overhaul. Of a variety of financing options tested in the survey, that tax was the only idea supported by a majority.

"Taxing the rich works because they've got the money," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. But, he warned, "you can't go to that well over and over again."

Many other provisions of the two healthcare bills would affect families' pocketbooks, for better and worse. For example, people who have very generous insurance plans would probably face higher costs or reduced benefits under the Senate plan. It would tax insurance companies that offer such plans, and the cost probably would be passed on to workers.

That wasnt part of this thread. I dont like where some of the other taxes go either. I can start a thread for this if you would like.

BUT healthcare is 1/6th of the American economy. It is huge

How can government control of another 1/6th of the economy be a good thing? Add to that the taxes, panels and coercion and we lose more of our liberty. It doesn't matter for the majority of the people here, old folks with debilitating conditions, but our kids will be paying for it and going on medical vacations.